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Infinite Frustration

Let's get back to the nut's and bolt's of the software. SW people "riddle me this" because I guess I don't understand or did not explain surface/knitting merging correctly.


Here is the issue:


The Knitin SWvs Merge in Pro......


SW lovers, please advise, and letus know how to knit these 2 surfaces together in SW with edges that over-lap without trimming first.


Solid Works Pictures


View attachment 4122


View attachment 4123


View attachment 4124


And now for Pro-e Merge pictures


View attachment 4125


View attachment 4126


View attachment 4127


View attachment 4128


Well from what I can tell, SW knit won't work unless the surfaces are trimmed perfectly.That addsfeatures in the model tree 3 to be exact, to accomplish the same thing in 1 feature in Pro.


In Pro 4 options, one feature, no trimming needed
 
FireWild < great posting name BTW

Thanks for going thru the trouble to make a point. Most of us are too lazy or busy to make such a detailed example with pictures. Good job
 
Just tried the same knit you illustrated in SW 2007 and got the same result. Hmmm.


I know that the SW guys here have shown me a multi-quilt knit before with overlapping surfaces, so I wonder what the limitations are? Perhaps is has to be an enclosed quilt when you are done?


I'm puzzled.
 
I don't think anyone will dispute that Pro/E is better than SW at making and merging surfaces. In fact, they have done some neat stuff to improve the functionality over the last five years. But I don't think that's what this 'Rant & Rave' is about: it's about the difficulties of learning and using Pro/E, esp. when compared to SW. Many users don't do much (if any) surfacing: we're just trying to make machined parts and assemblies, and to generate drawings for our parts. This is the kind of CAD work where bunches of extra mouse-clicks and inflexible software flow cost us time and cause frustration - especiallyfor less-experienced users (or those like me, who are returning to the Dark Side). After years of using a lovely user-friendly product like SW, this can be a discouraging experience. Pro/E has many outstanding fine points - and most of us have little need for them: it's the basics that we are whining about.
 
Exactly what I was struggling with when I started this thread...I'm not worried about which program has more advanced features, I'm having enough trouble just doing the simple tasks. I am starting to undrstand some of the commands, but all of the pop-up menus are a little daunting. Defining mates, and editing previously built parts is a real challenge. I find myself dumping an unsaved file and starting from scratch constantly, or having the program litterally bind up as I corner the algorithms with demands they are unwilling to execute. I have learned a few things, but this has happened through multiple repetitions and trial and errror. Why is the 'back' button never active? When I do manage to get things right it seems to be only because the operation I wanted to perform has only one possible method, orI stumbled into a solution that I likely will not be able to repeat.


This thread has really been hijacked. I just wanted to air my frustrations as a newbie to Pro/E with SW experience. It was not meant to be a back and forth of which is better, or what programming is more powerful. I don't like Pro/E, probably never will since I learned SW first, but I'll use, and try and learn as much of it as I can because it is so prevasive in our industry.
Edited by: Erich with an H
 
a couple more things I miss dearly frmo SW that make life so much easier.

How about drag and drop into an assembly? In SW, if you have a part in your assembly and you want another one, you can just drag it from your model tree into your assembly and then add your assembly mates from there. In Pro, go to the insert component command, find your component in the list, then assemble. more clicks

In SW, I NEVER had my datum planes turned on. I turned them off but......when you needed to use on you could simply click it in your feature tree and it would highlight in the model so you could tell which one you wanted to use. In Pro, you cannot have the datum highlight in the model unless they're all turned on. We all know that some models can have a lot of datums making it very confusing to figure out which one you want to use. Sure, the same information is there but I felt that SW displayed it much better.

as far as the advanced surfacing capabilities in Pro E, sure, score one for Pro. but, as somebody else said, it's not the advanced features that we're talking about, it's the simple things we do every day that Pro just sucks at. For every advanced surface merge I have to do, I have to do 50 redefines that take about a billion mouse clicks for me to tell pro to exit, yes I really want to exit, yes I"m absolutely certain I'd like to exit, yes, I will never change my mind so please exit!

Michael
 
I come from an Inventor background, like Erich, ProE drives me nut but I am getting my head around it.


Maybe thats why ProE rates seem to be higher?


I thought it was widely accepted that people who work with 3d cad systems always prefer the system they first used.
 
In University, we used Unigraphics (only 3D). I liked that fine.

In my first job, I had to downgrade to Autocad 2D, Mechnaical Desktop 3D and after some time, we used Inventor as well. I never thought I would like Inventor, but after some time, I did get used to it.

Then I changed the job and had to downgrade again from Invetor 8 to Pro/e 2000i^2, I was frustrated in the beginning just like everybody else with the poor user interface compared to other CAD systems.

Now with WF3, almost all the things I didn't like are gone and I now would have problems switching to another system.

A CAD system is like to place you work. If you don't like it, change jobs.
 
By the way if you want to reduce your mouse clicks get a space explorer.


Highly reccomend for any cad software.
 
HARMAN said:
By the way if you want to reduce your mouse clicks get a space explorer.


Highly reccomend for any cad software.
Click to expand...

not to discount the functionality a space explorer may have (I haven't used one so I can't be objective) using a piece of hardware to overcome the limitations of the SW is a band aid for the SW and not a real cure for the problem.

I'm sure that the space explorer offers other advantages beyond this though.

Michael
 
michaelpaul said:
... using a piece of hardware to overcome the limitations of the SW is a band aid for the SW and not a real cure for the problem...
Click to expand...


Same goes for mapkeys. Easy as it is that sets of commands can be automated, it's still no argument that you have to create a mapkey to start editing a profile because the software throws you into a bunch of right-left-mouseclicks to get in, and again to get out.
 
Well this provides a little humor for the SW people out there........<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />


[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7005287363704755088 &q=computer[/url]


We have all seen the emails andpromotions from Solid Works about OCC and how they use Solid Works...... Well this little video tells a different story....


Everyone loves to go back and forth about Pro and SW.Like I said before, unless you use both software
 
Firewild


I use both SW and ProE on a daily basis onreal design jobs for a wide range of clientsand agree that this is the only way to see the differences between the 2 packages.


However, I disagree about the "SW Goggles". A lot of my clients use other CAD packages and I rarely find translation of files between the packages to be a problem. I always bring the exported file back into the package I have created it in and into the other package to check for errors.


This whole debate about SW and ProE will never be resolved. I think I'm one of the few people who is happy to work in either package and can most of the time achieve my goal which ever one I use.


Maybe a bit controvertial but I think a lot of the time, annoyance with the CAD packages comes down to people not having the patience to actually sit down and learn something new. They want the things handed to them


Michael
smiley9.gif
 
I'm using both SW and Pro/E every day: mostly for modeling simple parts, making drawings for them and making fairly basic assemblies. SW is clearly much easier to use, but moreover it is much easier to learn, and much less expensive. Once one becomes an expert operator of Pro/E, it seems easy to use: the problem is getting there, esp. relative to SolidWorks. I have had many rookie CAD users tell me how easy it was for them to pick up SW, even without anything more than the text 'Inside SolidWorks' to guide them. I have never heard of a rookie Pro/E user ever learning to use the program without classes and months of frustration. But all of these rookie Pro/E users did work for big corporations who are willing to drop thousands of dollars on training: many of the rookie SW users I know simply went out and bought their own copy. Pro/E is clearly superior at some complex functions (such as surfacing), but many users have little use for such features.


Looking at the video, it's pretty obviousthere is somethingwrong with Jason's sketch: he hasn't trimmed the lines in his sketch correctly, and he may have two tangent lines (an arc and a straight line) converging to a point. These problems can give any CAD system fits, and are indeed examples of poor modeling techniques. Yes, he needs to learn to save more often. Looks like he's kinda tough on hardware too. Yes, SW can let the user engage in bad design practices (and get away with it in some cases), but Pro/E simply refuses to allow this - and it also interferes with and defeats perfectly good design practices in sketches, resulting in frustration for the user - until they figure out how to fight back.
 
FireWild said:
Well this provides a little humor for the SW people out there........


[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7005287363704755088 &q=computer[/url]


We have all seen the emails andpromotions from Solid Works about OCC and how they use Solid Works...... Well this little video tells a different story....
Click to expand...

And the OCC crew are the most highly trained and technical people to base their experience on? They're the worst of the eyeball engineers I've ever seen. If they got upset about using SW, they'd be downright homicidal after trying to learn and use Pro E!

Michael
 
The guys at OCC take 'seat-of-the-pants engineering' to a whole new level. I cannot imagine what happens there when any customer asks for a replacement part. Absolutely nothing appears to be made to (any) print, and quality control is done with the strike of a hammer: "It didn't break, so it must be okay". In spite of all the chrome and candy gloss paint, those guys are totally out of control. Please do not even begin to suggest any association between those knuckle-draggers and real designers and engineers working for real companies making real products.


I was going to say it, but I held off until I read michael3130's posting:


If Jason was running Pro/E, Paulie would have to check him for guns before he entered the building.
 
well it is nothing to shame for Pro\e concerning motorbikes design and such a stuff

http://www.dbbp.com/

this eye candy pics can interest newbie but not existing user.

I can not imagine replacing Pro\e easly to another application without some complaining. The same in opposite direction. It is all about habbits.

It is normal that while using new software one uses its habitts from previous application. And this is first problem. Pro\e has zoom with scroll, Catia not. First feeling - what a sh..., but after a while, well it got sense to work with MMB+RMB.

So if you really like your existing software, it would surely be hard to quick switch to another. Just the same by not using right hand, but left. Try it.

Then it is easy to understand why somebody who did not use CAD at all, learn so quick any application. They have no habbits. Existing user will learn aslo fast, but for long he would have to fight with his habbits from previous software. So he can complaining...

So, for me, I can imagine not people working on two applications simultaneously without problems. It is just not natural.
 
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