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Zaki

Member
Hi Lynch
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />
A good designer must know some thing very important about the thing what he designing like:
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" =disc>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Complete information about the product</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Complete information about the product functionality</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Complete information about the material family the will be made by </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Complete information about manufacturing process for the product</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Information about the same product or a product by same group or function, including success or failure reasons.</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Design for manufacture theory</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Political, religious, social and geographical conditions of the area where that product will use</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Common sense ( that is not enough common)</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">Dare to do, u must do it, make all possible solutions for the problems u may think occur later. Its better u think on that problems and give opportunity to others that they can check <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">ur</st1:place></st1:City> work and give their comments</LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">And remember one thing u r the world
 

BMD

New member
Designers can make parts; Engineers can't.


Engineers can make parts work; Designers can't.


You should be able to do both.


I'll try to follow with some information you actually asked for when time permits.


Steve
 

Speling

New member
Main thing for working all this is to love what you are
doing. Without love all what is left is money.





When you love something, you will input all yourself in to
that job
 

jeff4136

New member
Designers can make parts; Engineers can't.
Engineers can make parts work; Designers can't.
As a guy that spent much of his life as a mechanic / fabricator in R&D environments I'd say that, in the end, it's the guy on the floor that usually does both.
 

james.lynch

New member
thanks for the replies..


Speling, I have read and enjoyed many of your posts including the ones yo uhave mentioned.



I'm interested to hear an emploters take on university graduates in general. what kind of a time frame woudl you expect for them to be fully up to speed? what kind of skill level is expected?


just to give you some background on myself, I have a mechanical engineering degree and following that I completed a Graduate diploma in Computer Aided Engineering Product design and I'm now in the final stages of my masters. I dont think I'm a bad ProE user, I have probably over 2000 hours on ProE - and I'm familiar with many aspects of ProE ranging from ISDX to MDO, BMX to Mechanica.


However, industry probably still sees me as a graduate, with no engineering experience!


interested on hearing your thoughts.


James



Edited by: james.lynch
 

Israr

Active member
I want to share my experience here:


Any Mechanical Engineering Project has three important people that make a trio.


Decision-Makers, Designers, Fabricators, and Engineers:


The ideal combination will be : Designers and Engineerspresent ideas that both agree on and the Decision-Makers select the ones they like, but the fabricator must be consulted.


Designers start designing simple models (parts or assemblies) and Engineers go for analyzing it and iterate on a practical acceptable solution. This solution be presented to fabricator.


It all depends on the company thats makes team.


James, these are just my views about your question.


Israr
Edited by: Israr
 

SSLaser

New member
James,


Congrats on the completion of your studies. Following your undergraduate degree with an immediate masters is a move I've often wished I had made. Smart move!


Having workedseveral years as a engineer/designer, I believe it's possible to work asa cross between the two functions. It may not be as efficient as having two separate people performing the functions, but depending on company culture/size, it is may be the only solution available to the company.


I've personally learned (through mistakes which I'll call experience!) to always get a takeon the fabricator's experience when taking in information to make an engineering decision. As jeff4136 points out, the fabricator makes the part and makes it work. Working at an R&D facility myself, I've learned that the fabricator can often come up withquick (hence economical) solutions to problems that I would never have conceived. Of course, as the engineer, you have ultimate responsibilityfor its success or failure in the context of the entire system;always perform whatever analysis you need to convince yourself of the viability of a given solution.


Peter
 

james.lynch

New member
Israr,


Thanks for your comments, very informative.


Peter,


the masters after the undergrad.. yeah I suppose it's hasn't been the worst move I've made, however, the down side of it is that I'm now quite broke, while many of my old class mates are now thinking of buying their first house, have a job, and "made their own mistakes" (experience)



soo.. I've often wished I'd taken the leap into industry with immediate effectas I could probably have done mymasters on a part time basis at a later date..The two sides of the coin!
I suppose it will pay dividend at a later date! (I hope
)


Thanks for the comments, again quite informative..


Anybody else have anything else to add? I'd appriciate any advice you have to offer,


James
 

Speling

New member
One interesting thing for thinking :)





Place of birth or place of living is also information which
can influence on making those decisions or on whole situations! I personally can
testify that something which work in
 

james.lynch

New member
well I'm Irish, so I haven't got a visa to work in the likes of the states (but I hear nice companies will sponsor an intelligent person
hint hint!
) and to be honest I'll move where ever there is a challenge..


I think it's really important that I get a job is a fit not only for them with me, but for me with them. I'd move anywhere in the world for that! but it would haveto be the right job.. moving potentially half way around the work is adecision not to be taken lightly!


Oh decisions, decisions, decisions!


keep the comments coming! if anybody has a take on the value (if any
) of a graduate to a company..


James
 

dr_gallup

Moderator
James,

It is hard to understand the working world until you have experienced it first hand. However, if you can pick an industry you want to work in it will focus your search. In my case I knew I wanted to work with internal combustion engines whether they be cars, trucks, boats or motorcycles (my first love). I had worked as a mechanic in high school & summers. I had also persuaded my high school to buy me an engine dynomometer for second year physics. In college, my senior independant study lab involved the design & testing of nitrous oxide injection on a 2-stroke engine.

I took my first job in an engineering laboratory to get more hands on experience even though I knew I wanted to do design work eventually. Building & destroying prototypes gave me a better understanding of those failure modes they teach in fracture mechanics. I also did dynomometer & emissions testing of cylinder heads, turbos, fuel injection, heat exchangers, etc. The more real world experience you have to draw on the easier it is to come up with practical solutions to new problems.

A little hands on experience in addition to all the studies goes a long way in manufacturing industries. Actually running a machining center and cutting some chips gives you a very different perspective on a 10 micron tolerance. Designing something that works is not so hard, designing something that works and is cost optimized to manufacture is much harder.
 

Isair

New member
Hi James


I'm also student so those questions interested me also
I'm also near my masters,and I'm working for almost 2 years now so I can tell you what I think, and from my point of view. I remember what one of my professors from collage said to us:"Its not important what you will learn here on collage, what is important is to learn how to think, and thats only matters, to learn how to think like Engineer". Yes thats the truth, that is only what its matter (well OK not only but its like 85% what is matter and other 15% is what you have learned in collage), when you come to work all you didn't know you will learn and when they see that you learn fast, and that you endeavor on work they'll know that they got good employer



Well in Croatia when u get job then its assume that you will work like designer and engineer (well it's cheaper to pay one person to do 2 jobs in salary for one) at the same time. So when we finish collage we are both designer and engineers, and from my opinion engineer give better solutions to problems
 

AHA-D

New member
Let's start with some philosophy.


Life at work stands on a tripod. Tripods are extremely stable ... when the legs are all the same length. In work the tripod legs are job content, social environment and pay. Job content is what you have to do, the tools you get to do it, the variation (or lack of it), the intellectual challenge, ... Social environment is your colleagues, how you work together, appreciation from your surrounding and superiors, ... Pay is clear I suppose. You need all three legs and neither can compensate for the other. Depending on what is missing or insufficient, you'll last longer in the job but eventually it is either looking for another job or grow grumpy and washed out, unless you can changethe situation.


And now at random :


Coming out of college there is a lot you know, but even more you have to learn. Don't start by wanting to change everything and get everyone against you. Take time to observe and evaluate and suggest wisely afterwards. There's a world of difference between "what idiot created this model" and "I find it more robust to model in discrete steps than to put all dimensions in one profile".


There's more out there than ProE, keep your eyes and mind open.


Every day you should come home smarter than you set out in the morning. You're "condemned" to eternal learning.


Use your imagination, train on parallel thinking.


Convincing others that you have made a good design is at least equally hard to do as making a good design. Lots of good ideas don't make it into the world because : it's your idea and not the guy's who's deciding it, "we've always done it like we do now", people are afraid to change, the return is unclear, "we would like but our customers won't accept", ... Be prepared to get frustrated, be patient to retry the next time.


Good solutions need maturing. Looking at the solution of last month you'll find a dozen things you could solve differently.


Alex
Edited by: AHA-D
 

Hacks

New member
"What does it take to be a good engineer?"


In my almost 20 years in the mechanical engineering industry,
the one thing that I think is not understood well enough by
mechanical engineers is dimensioning and tolerancing philosophy.



Get yourself a copy of ASME Y14.5M-1994, read it and understand
it. The first 39 pages speak to traditional x-y coordinate dimensioning
and the remainder focuses on GD&T (geometric dimensioning and
tolerancing). Both of these dimensioning and tolerancing languages
are the lifeblood of any mechanical drawing.


Bottomline - know how to apply the proper dimensioning and tolerancing
scheme to all of your parts based on how they "live" and FUNCTION in the
context of the assembly they are used in.


"What would you, either as an admin or as a company as a whole,
want/expect/look for from a GRADUATE?"


Have a true passion for what you do and never let it go. Lastly, always
be committed and never let your self become simply compliant.
 

james.lynch

New member
Thanks for the replies everybody, it's great to get an insight from the different perspectives..


dr_gallup, I hear what you are saying about picking an industry, the thing is, having trained as a mechanical engineer, then as a designer, I think I'd be equally at home in the likes of the automotive/aerospace industry or indeed the consumer products/medical device industry. hands on experience in a quality workshop is something I should look into alright..


Isair, I couldn't agree more.. it's very important to learn to think like an engineer..


AHA-D, Good philosophy! And I completely aggree... however, for the first year or two of my career, I'd probably be willing to sacrifice pay for good experience and job satisfaction.. pay will obviously become more important as I progress in career.I'm very aware that I still have a lot to learn.. "what idiot created this model" - we all know one of those guys!



Hacks, GD&T.. I hear you! I've struggled quite a bit on this.. I've read much of the ISOstandards, but not the ASME Y14.5.. Ishould probably get my hands on it... I've asked quite a few people about this and many of them have replied saying that it comes with experience.. I've found it quite difficult to understand and get my head around without a specific example to study..


Anyway, thanks for the responses everybody.. very informative!


again if anybody has anything else to add, I'd love to hear it..


James
 

arroyopr

New member
Hi James:


I work for a product and technologies research and developement company with more than sixty Phd's in a variety fields. And they had sponsor visa for the right candidate along with relocation benefits. If your willing to do the move and take day to day challenge I encourage you to do so. Belive me when a said that they don't care where you come from. They just look at you for what you can bring to them meaning knowledge and intellectual. Just visit our web site www.lynntech.com. and take a look at it. just for the heck of it.
 

ravikd

New member
dr_gallup said:
A little hands on experience in addition to all the studies goes a long way in manufacturing industries. Actually running a machining center and cutting some chips gives you a very different perspective on a 10 micron tolerance. Designing something that works is not so hard, designing something that works and is cost optimized to manufacture is much harder.

Words worth a million $.


When I startedmy career as Design Engineer with R&D of a Process automation company, they had put me on assembly shop forcouple ofmonths. Though I thought initially why I am making my hands dirty, it paid rich dividends later when working on new designs. The exposure I got in assembly shop gave better perspective of practical considerations/problems often missed in design office.





James:


In my opinion, the emerging trend is that companies are looking for a Designer and Engineer in one.


I have seen few job posts asking for Engineer with hands on CAD skills like Pro/E, UG... and ability perform FEA with tools like ANSYS, NASTRAN... etc.


To catch up with this trend, CAD and FEA softwares are getting more and more user friendly and easier to learncompared to few years back.


Wish youall the bestin you career.


Ravikumar
 

james.lynch

New member
Ravikd, Thanks for the reply..


I have a good bit of Mechanica experience dealing with metals, plastics andcomposites. I always ment to learn either Ansys or Abaqus btu never really got the time.


thanks for the replies everybody, I know I'm dogging it a little but if anybody hasany other words of wisdom, please post it here!


James
 

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