PTC UK Arrogence

[biff]

What the hell do PTC think they are playing at.


In the last 6 months I have seen 1 major defence company ditch it for NX4. One smaller M.O.D supplier ditch it for Solid Works, and one commercial company also ditch for Solid Works.


I have been informed that another major M.O.D supplier is in talks about ditching it for NX4.


Now it so happens I have done work for all these companies and I have been told the same thing.....................maintenance costs.


They all say the same thing, It might be good, but it's not that good to warrent the maintenance cost levels and the sheer arrogence of PTC giving them no choice but to look elsewhere.


I despair sometimes at this companies sheer bloody arrogence.


They even had the ordasity to send an online invitation to the world event in Birmingham last year and then ask for

 

[Dell_Boy]

How much do you pay for maintenance in the UK?

 

[biff]

I've just been quoted

 

[prohammy]

Dell_Boy,


What are the maintainance costs for say a basic Foundation package in the NZ and while I'm at it, anyone know how much it is in the States?


Kev

 

[AHA-D]

1850 quit !?


Save your maintenance for the next 2-3 years and you can buy any of the so-called-but-no-longer-midrange other CAD players. And we're talking full versions, except for maybe piping, cabling and other specialised stuff.

 

[mgnt8]

I've just been quoted

 

[proe_geezer]

As mgnt8 said, SW does not have anything to match ProE for surfacing!!
You pay more but the software is more advanced than SW and I think it is similar in maint costs to ProE.

 

[biff]

Unfortunately I used to be a Pro E user and totally blinkered to Pro/E's advanced abilities in certin areas, but now I have an open mind about software in general.


Perhaps it's the shi*e customer service they provide or the fact that they tend to pi** customers off once you have bought the software...........either way I don't have blinkers on anymore.

 

[Dell_Boy]

Prohammy,

Software quotes in NZ$ as at March 2005 1NZ$ = 0.73US$
Solidworks $9,600 + $2,400 maintenance
Solidworks Office Pro $12,700 + $2,900 maintenance
Solidworks Office Premium $15,800 + $3,600 maintenance

Pro/E Foundation Adv $10,500 + $3,000 maintenance
Pro/Mechanica Free + $1,800 maintenance (special offer)
2nd Foundation Adv seat $11,000 including maintenance



2007 maintenance cost 1NZ$ = 0.76US$
Pro/E Foundation XE $3,100

Pro/Mechanica $1,850


Back in the mid 90's a relatively basic license used to cost around $40,000 with maintenance of $6-7,000.


DB




Edited by: Dell_Boy

 

[Dell_Boy]

Biff,

check out whether you really need AAX. A few years ago there were several really useful tools missing from the original Foundation Bundle. With Foundation Advantage many of these were added in and also with Foundation XE to the point where many users can comfortably manage without AAX.

If you can drop the maintenance on AAX it will save you a substantial amount of money.


DB

 

[proe_geezer]

Comparing those costs...


The closest matching SW package is Office Pro. This is $2200 more expensive, but the maint is $100 cheaper.... So 22 years later you'll break even against buying a ProE seat.....

 

[mgnt8]

A few years ago there were several really useful tools missing from the original Foundation Bundle. With Foundation Advantage many of these were added in and also with Foundation XE to the point where many users can comfortably manage without AAX.

Which tools are you referring to? We were shafted out of those assembly functionalities during the whole Wildfire transition and I've been stumbling thru workarounds ever since. Specifically, we really missed 'Copy Geometry'. Did I miss some post-WF enhancements?

 

[biff]

Got to agree with you mgnt8, they did the same thing with pro collaborate.


It was free, then they claimed to have retired it, guess what..................it's part of Windchill now so you have to pay for it.





When I questioned PTC at a conference in front of a couple of hundred people, a program which actually worked and was free, they claimed Pro Collaborate was only a trial piece of software and was planned to be part of Windchill all along if it was found to be useful.


total bullsh*t from a bullshi**ing company (PTC)

 

[mjcole_ptc]

Hey Biff,

At least consider your self lucky that none of the PTC reps Tazered you.
AAX has a lot of benefits in terms of efficiency and ability to replace models with interchange groups. ISDX is a good tool but it's not worth anywhere near what PTC charges for it. Most operations can be done well enough with boundary blends and Basic Surfacing.

Can Insert Reference Feature be used as a Simplified Rep (Replacement) Functionality for copy geom? I don't know because with the Student Edition I use to keep up to date with software changes includes "All" Functionality.

The Student Edition however, shafts you by excluding trailfiles and Model Check functionality which I'd really like to do more things with. Or in case of trailfiles do something useful with all my knowledge on how to use them. If Pro/E Crashes on me now I'm severely F-ed.

In any case I'll soon be working for a SW reseller. Even though I applied for similar positions at PTC, they mistakingly decided not to hire me.

Now I can return the Shafting.

Michael


Edited by: mjcole_ptc

 

[iturner_frl]

Another annoying thing PTC do is (they are not the only software company that does this) is charge a 1:1 conversion rate from $US for maintenance and purchase. For example base proe at $3995 gets charged at

 

[dr_gallup]

Also PTC won't let you downgrade from high level packages eg. flex3c to lower level packages without rebuying a new licence.

Actually, you can do this although you have to really get tough with PTC. We bought each one of our licenses separately years apart & they were all the "flavor of the month" deal that PTC happened to be offering at that time. So we ended up with lots of useless modules. So we finally decided that we were not going to pay maintenance on all this stuff we don't use. So we told them we were going to pay maintenance on only X number of foundation & Y number of AAX licenses and that was that. Now every year PTC sends me this big quote for maintenance on everything we ever bought and every year I send it back and tell them to requote on just the modules that we use. It usually takes about 6 emails and a couple of phone calls but eventually we get what we want.

 

[Dell_Boy]

Which tools are you referring to?

The original "Foundation" package probably came out around 99-00 as I had to re-purchase the software when I changed jobs mid 2000. I know that it did not have the ability to CREATE Simplified Reps or replace components by family table.

I am reasonably sure it didn't have Adv Utils/Replace or Repeat.

I also think it didn't include the Pro/Process for Assemblies module which meant that you couldn't define explode states in assembly mode and all exploding had to be done in drawing mode or report mode. Mega PITA

The above listed functionality is in Foundation Adv/XE

There were probably also other things as well but my memory is getting a little fuzzy and I no longer work for that company so I can't retrieve the e-mails or the licence packs.



DB

Edited by: Dell_Boy

 

[dojo]

MjCole, I cant agree on your statement that everything done with ISDX can be done with normal surfacing. This module is well worth the cost if used daily. The time gain is important and makes communication between designers and engineers alot easier. Now they can actually tweak the spline tangency angle with 0.000005 degrees to their liking and actually see the effect on the surface. More complex G2 continious surfaces are definatly not possible with normal surfacing, and where previously done with CDRS, which they replaced by ISDX.


Anyway. Splitting up a license would be good. Ive gota Flex3c but usually only use adv assembly and ISDX. But acc to PTC here they can't split up the maintenance. Unless you buy a new license, but then ofcourse you loose the cabling, intralink etc. It would be nice if there was a split up of maintenance between software updates and support. Support we never use, we just need software updates, but hey they see their revenue going down so that wont happen in the near future. Searching for different suppliers has been the solution to keep the cost down, but PTC directs a regional policy, making it impossible for resellers to offer their services across countries. If you find a important enough dealer for them in a different country they will do something for you. PTC is as bad as microsoft, someone should sue there arse for controlling the market per country


Nick

 

[truicalau]

Hi everyone,


I need also to decide if Iwill pay for maintenance or not. The quotationI got is 3700 Euro for 2 licences of Foundation and one Mechanica.We are about to finish the first year using Pro/E, without any major problems. Anybody can advise what problems may occur to justify payng soo much for maintenance?

 

[mjcole_ptc]

One Place I worked had a Maintenance license on one workstation and reported all problems on that machine and had the rest of their licenses on their computers without maintenance.

This way they could still get problems resolved on the maintenance machine and save money on the rest of their licenses. Also you can have fewer licenses for ISDX for those who'd actually use the functionality and still be able to work on the non ISDX features with all the other licenses.

And dojo, don't miss quote me, I didn't say "Anything" I said "Most operations" could be done without ISDX. And AAX is much more valuable a tool than ISDX in decreasing user problems and increasing efficiency if you don't design really stylish products.

Michael