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Pro/INTRALINK 8 - A Big Step Backwards?

pjw

Member
In my opinion Intralink 8 is the worst piece of sofware PTC have ever brought out. We have just upgraded from Intralink 3.3 M020and WF2 to Intrank 8 and WF3. I have serious issues with this sofware and I urge other people who are on this software to come forward with their thoughts:


- Standalone parts can now not be added to a family table if the user so wishes. In Intralink 3.3 it was simply a case of overwring the old file stored in Commonspace. The file was version dependent and would be checked out as standalone or instance depending on which version was selected. Parts and assemblies can neither be broken off from family tables by the old method which was to open the instance in session then delete the row from the table. Saving would warn that it did not belong to the generic anymore.


- Checkout times are horrendous compared to 3.3. PTC state that the software is faster due to decreased network latency over a WAN. It is now taking 4mins to checkout a file which would previously have taken around 30 seconds.


- Why something cannot be modified unless it is checked out. Sometimes you would need to modify something even if you had no intention of checking it back in. We create a lot of STEP files and always remove text and other surface intense features prior to export (to reduce file size). Now with Intralink 8, you have to do something with the Workspace just to delete it - to deal with the checked-out parts. Previously you could just dump your workspace.


- PTC_COMMON_NAME is now causing us serious problems. Prior to Intralink 8 we weren't concerned with it. The phsysical file seen in Windows and that seen in the Java environment could sometimes be different - if a rename had taken place. We now have serious issues with PTC_COMMON_NAME.


- Filtering the workspace is now a major ordeal. Previously we could set filters for things like DVN - drawing verification number and set the revision level after filtering all concerned drawings, parts and assemblies. Then, on check-in you could set promote levels by fitering again. This cannot be done in Intralink 8.


-Frames have now been taken out of the software. How can PTC remove functionality and claim that the software is improved?


- Apparently things only need to be 'added to the workspace' now unless you actually want to modify. By the time you've finished with your work - the wretched thing ends up as checked out anyway. Even the slightest operation wants to check out the part. E.g. edit > setup > interchange to view whether the parts or assembly is related to an interchange assembly.


- PTC said this software would more than be able to cope with our data. We had around 90Gb of data before. I would say that 80% of the data was down to 20% of our products (typically Pareto) due to high numbers of versions. It is STRUGGLING severely. It is not due to the network (bandwidth or latency) but moreso with what it is doing with relationships during ckeck-outs, check-ins etc.


Can anyone shed any light on this awful software? AmI missing something?


Phil
 
What are the hardware specs on the Intralink8 servers? You should have 2 servers, one for Oracle and one for Intralink, as well as a disk array for the data.


How many users are using the system?





Existing parts migrated to an existing family table has always been a Windchill solution based problem. I first encountered it in PDMLink7. We were told it would be fixed in a future release.


Parts can be modified without doing a check out. When the window comes up asking you to check out the part, select the drop down menu and use continue. Then the part can be modified and when finished, just remove it from the workspace.
 
We are using 2 servers as you say you should. Two HP Dual CPU dual core Xeon processors running at 2.4GHz and 4Gb of RAM per server. They are top spec machines (
 
Just an update on a point I made earlier about Checkout times: It took 12 minutes to check 4000 bits of metadata out into a worskspace. On Intralink 3.3 it would have taken around 28 seconds. PTC have practically admitted that there are SERIOUS issues with performance. Is anyone else using Intralink 8? PTC are now saying the performance is down to the heavy use of family tables. Some of our family tables have around 150 instances (variations of flanges etc) but PTC originally said this was the way to go - especially when parts were very similar to each other.


339 have read this topic and only 1 person has made a comment?


I'd appreciate your comments!


Phil
 
We are also in the process of moving to Intralink 8 (or PDM Link to be precice) and are experiencing the same problems. The PTC_COMMON_NAME has been there for some time nowbut up to now you could just ignore it so we continued to use the name in all our BOM structures etc, now you have to watch it like a hawk with family tables in particular where you add an instance and it takes on the common name instead. As far as performance is concerned we are in the same (sinking) boat, it can take 20 minutes to check in under 1000 items, I have seen one case where it took 10 minuttes just to check a single object back in. I too have spoken to PTC and they said that the answer is to have our system "tuned" by one of their people on a days consultancy basis. I am willing to do this but I am not confident that it will resolve the problems, PTC dont come cheap and my confidence in them has been knocked somewhat by this experience. Surely when you buy software the least you should get is something that works out of the box and not have to get programming experts with brains like Stephen Hawking in to fix it at extra cost. Thankfully we didnt go for the big switch over from 3.4 and I only have three users on PDM Link so far, trying to sell PDM Link to the others is going to be hard. I have suspended moving the others until hopefully this is resolved


Keith
 
>339 have read this topic and only 1 person has made a comment?


Sorry to hear about your problems. We are in theevaluation phase ofPDMLink8 that is supposed to have the same issues (same software, different packaging). I am very curious to see theexperienceof this from people that made the move. As it seems from this thread,it will have a big impact on us.
 
I believe not many people use Intralink 8, yet, that's why there are so few comments about. We use Intralink 3.4 and don't plan toupgrade in the near future. And from what I read here I hope we don't upgrade soon or never.
smiley1.gif
 
Like what vlad1979 said, not many people has migrated to Intralink 8.0 yet, most are still sitting on the fence. That's where threads like these come in. I do hope somebody from PTC actually trawls through these boards. Might give them a wake-up call.
 
Actually, we are currently evaluating whether or not we go to Intralink 8 or make the jump directly to the full blown PDMlink. I am keeping an eye on this thread with keen interest.
 
The performance issues are the same for both Intralink8 and PDMLink8 as they are functionally the same code base. PDMLink just gives more steps in your process to add to the complexity of the system.
 
Hi,
I have been using Intralink since its inception and must say that I was completely comfortable with the software and its functionality up until the time that PTC made the announcement that support would end in 2008. Not only would support for Intralink end but also the big cost of migration from Intralink to Intralink 8 would leave a sizable hole in your pocket.

I decided to "shop around" for an alternative and am very glad that I did because I found Design Data Manager. I have been using it now for about 8 months, and I would suggest that anyone looking for an alternative to Intralink, at least try this software, you will be pleasantly surprised. There are a number of "big hitters" around the place that are using DDM and have publicly announced their approval.

DDM is definitely worth a try, It's free for a months evaluation.

MW Solid Model Design
 
kdmgooner said:
...I too have spoken to PTC and they said that the answer is to have our system "tuned" by one of their people on a days consultancy basis. I am willing to do this but I am not confident that it will resolve the problems, PTC dont come cheap and my confidence in them has been knocked somewhat by this experience....


Keith


If they're confident that this is the only problem (finetuning) then you could try to make them accept a "no cure no pay" agreement. It should at least give some feedback on their own confidence in the software if you throw the suggestion in.
 
Hi,
We worked with PDMLink 7 and 8 (2 years) but were not able to implement it as we would like it to work. It works to slow (we used 2 servers : 1 PDMLink and 1 Oracle). PDMLink often comes asking to check items out, even if we just opened the part/assembly/drawing (somehow ProE/PDMlink thinks there is something changed). The userinterface is not customisable. The most important infomation (=our custom attributes) can't be placed in the overviews, so you're always stuck with the PTC's point
of view. Searching for items is not straight forward, it takes a lot of actions (mouse clicks).
All togheter, PDMLink was not the correct solution to our needs/problems.
Therefore we switched to DDM (DesignDataManager) which functionalities better meet our requirements. It is much more straightforward in its approach to engineering problems.
 
I caught this thread last night, and spent a good portion of the day looking at the DDM videos from the web site. It looks very good.


Is there any thing that the design data manager doesn't do well?


Performance for Environment similar to: 25 Concurrent Users, 200K objects, 80+GB file vault.


How is tech support?


Software build cycles, Version and Release?


How quick do they support new releases of Pro/ENGINEER?





We are on Intralink 3.4 m030/ WF3.0 and are happy.Performance is good, user interface and ease of use is also good. Administration time minimal. We would not be worried but PTC was is going to Kill the Intralink 3.X series at the end of 2008. Also WF4.0 is not supposed to have a I3.X solution, only I8.0+.


I played with I8 a little over a year ago, just enough to determine it was not ready for production purposes. 8.0 is lacking functionality that Ilink 1.2 had. 9.0 is supposed to fill in the I3.4 functionality gaps (possibly requiring WF4.0 to help fill some of them)


Even if 9.0 fills the gaps, it will still be extremely complicated to install and manage, and the most important part, the user interface and ease of use will still suck. Web based interfaces are at the bottom with respect to feature rich user experience.


Ilink 9.0 is supposed to be out in May-July. PTC is probably going to make a huge deal of 9.0 it at the 2007 conference just like they did with 8.0 at the 2005 conference. I still feel like 2005was a granddeception, from Heppelmann at the general sessions to Shaw and the others at the 8.0 seminars (the rooms literally were freezing cold). Every sentence and answer seemed to be fully rehearsed.


If Windchill hadn't been Heppelmann
 
Hi Joe,
We're working with DDM in a production environment (we're a company that engineers and produces industrial vehicles like semi trailers, tank trailers of about 650 persons) and I've closely integrated DDM in our MRP software.
At the moment we're having 14 DDM Pro/ProE-AAX.
We're still in a transition fase of converting data from PDMlink into DDM.
Up until this moment I was not able to detect any significant problems in DDM that could't be solved by CSI. My experience is that they respond fairly quick to my questions.
 
Hi Joe,

I purchased this software some 8 months ago, after having downloaded it
from the web, installed it, and trialed it (on a laptop) for a month with
the free eval license. So far, I have yet to come across any issues. The vendor, CSI, told me that this software has been around some 9-10 years and is well established with a good user base.

My experience to date has shown that it handles Pro/E data comfortably, parts,
assemblies, drawings, part to part relationships, family tables
(part & assembly), sheet metal, simplified reps etc.
What it does not do is handle Pro/E Manufacture files, which is not an issue
for me.

What also comes bundled with the product is full blown 'drag & drop'
document management, project management, access control, configurable ECN
(Engineering Change Notice Tools), subscriptions etc.
Its also multi CAD, support Pro/E, Solidworks, Inventor, SolidEdge, IronCAD,
ME10 and AutoCAD all in the same license. Plus it has a Site Licensed Web portal for sharing your engineering data with suppliers and customers.
I also read from the web site that it has a replicated Vault facility.

I had some concerns about keeping up with new releases from PTC, but CSI
released DDM support for Pro/E Wildfire 3 back in April 2006. That is about a 8 week lag which I think is pretty good because most serious users would not load a new version of Pro/E that soon anyway. I am told by DDM that 8 weeks is pretty standard. I have made a number of enhancement requests to DDM (3) which I am glad to say are being implemented as we speak. I have been using Pro/E for 14 years this May and have not had 1 enhancement request even acknowledged much less implemented. DDM Tech support is excellent. On one occasion I found a bug in a point release, reported it and it was fixed in less than 24 hours.
Thats very good service in anyones language.

Before I sign off I must say that I am not a PTC basher, I wouldn't be using their software for 14 years if I was. I think Intralink is a brilliant product and I have absolutely no complaints accept to say that PTC once again have shot themselves in the foot regarding Intralink. This is why I am now using DDM

So far, I have yet to break it, so for me its the right fit.

Regards,
Max Weston
Solid Model Design.


</pre>

Edited by: maxweston
 
pjw said:
Don't get me started on Wildfire 3 either. I cannot believe that 6 versions have now been released (M050 current) and they haven't done anything about not being able to redefine a sketch plane which was present in first build. You just get thrown back into Sketcher without any option to reselect sketch plane and orient reference. Their 'Alternative Method' is to open the part in WF2 to redefine.


Just to go back in the post a bit, in WF3 redefinition of the Sketch Plane / Orientation takes place within Sketcher itself under Sketch>Sketch Setup. There is also an icon you can add to the Sketcher toolbar that looks like a set of crossed datum planes. It's actually a bit of an improvement.


View attachment 2992


Regarding the topic at hand (Intralink 8), I'm not quite grasping the importance of PTC_COMMON_NAME and its impact in 8. We see but ignore it in Intralink 3.4.


Regards
Edited by: peterbrown77
 
Yes, DDM has a release procedure (I don't know if it's the same as in Intralink). You can define yourself who can change from state A to state B. You define as many states as you want (work, release, obsolete, ...). Via security (admin tool) you can define which person(s) can change an object from state A to B.
No, it's not oracle based but SQL server (or SQLexpress, MSDE which are free)
 

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