Money Grabbing

[Bugzuki]

This has been a growing concern of mine with PTC over the last couple years - mostly starting with WF4.


Yesterday I feel that I got kick by them again to see if any more money would fall out.


First I will tell the story of yesterday and then I will try to explain me feelings.


Yesterday I got an email entitled "ProductView Validate for Model-Based Design Streamlines Design Checking" I thought wow they are updating ProductView. I read the article in "Imakenews": [url]http://www.imakenews.com/ptcexpress/e_article001585791.cfm?x =bgg70Jg,bccVBTfK[/url]


Sounds really cool to be able to do all that model checking with ProductView. This way we can have non engineers check models without using a Pro/E License. And there is more opportunity to replace the use of eDrawings.


So, I am go and look to see if there is a ProductView 9.2 or 10.0 available for download. We pay for ProductView Prefessional, so I should be able to get the latest release as soon as it is available. Nothing is available. I go and look some more on PTC's site and find the statement "ProductView Validate for Model-Based Design is an optional module...".


**********


My line of thinking:


We pay maintenance each year for 10 seats of ProductView Professional. PTC states that the maintenance covers Tech Support and R&D costs to make the software better. So, in essense, I am paying PTC to keep developing the applicatoins I need to use. Then, when PTC comes out with new functionality for a product I am currently paying for the premium package of and says new optional functionality. They have effectively said, we are downgrading your license. We do not feel that they money you spent to help us develop new functionality applies to this feature, so we are not giving it to you unless you pay more.


It seems as PTC looses more customers they try and gouge the same amount of money out of the current customers. This then forces more customers to switch, force more gouging.


PTC needs to build excitement with their current customers. As the excitement grows new customers will fall in and buy. But if PTC keeps on with this failed approach it is just going to keep going down hill.


If I switch CAD tools it will be because of PTC lack of interest in what the customers think, want and how they feel.

 

[[-Skint-]]

I can and do sympathise with You having had similar discussions with my reseller in the past. I cant complain at the amount of work PTC put into thier development programs with continual updates etc, but I do believe the maintenance payments per year are ridiculously expensive considering what we are "actually" entitled to.

 

[dr_gallup]

Every time PTC comes up with significant new functionality it goes into a new module. This has been happening since release 1. If you want/need the new functionality you have to buy the new module or upgrade your existing license. If you pay for the new module or upgrade you will have to pay increased maintenance every year. It is a total racket. What really gripes me is they will bundle all this functionality in a new license for less than what existing customers paid for the old licenses. So you pay for the license, you pay for the maintenance, you pay for the upgrade & you keep paying for the upgrade maintenance.

We did do the upgrade thing once to get the Foundation package & AAX. It got us sheet metal & a number of other things that were previously separate modules. Then Foundation Advantage came out which has since been replaced by something else. I refuse to fall for the trap again. I think existing license holders should get the same functionality & maintenance costs as new purchasers. It would sure make a lot more satisfied customers. As it is, the best plan from a strictly cost basis is to drop maintenance completely for 3 or 4 years then buy all new licenses. You will get all the new functionality at a lower price point if history repeats itself.

 

[dgs]

It used to be that new releases came out every 6 months. That meant that a year's maintenance got you two new releases. Now, new releases are every 18 months, give or take, so it's conceivable that your year of maintenance could get you no new releases.

For what we are charged, that's just silly. Our high end Pro|E seats' maintenance is 2.5 times the price of high end seats of SW. For that money, I get tech support athat is slow and usually less knowledgeable that I am. None of my users use the knowledge Base or Tech Support but me and the IT guy anyway. So we pay half my salary to maybe get a new version and to get access to mediocre tech support. Makes no sense.

PTC needs to give us more value for our maintenance dollars, period.

 

[design-engine]

'consumerism' at it's finest... With all it's flaws it's still better. It could be worse... we could have one big module like solidworks...
Edited by: design-engine

 

[Mindripper]

Actually, SolidWorks offers three levels of their product: Standard (the basic package, without their PDM system or fastener library or FEA), Professional (includes PDM software, fastener library plus a gutted FEA package) and Premium (adds the complete FEA package and some other integration tools). These packages are about $3k, $5k and $7k respectively for single standalone seats,plus about $1500 to $2500 annual maintenance (includes annual updates, with major updates every other year). There are additional modules for specific needs too. I believe this is substantially less than Pro/E.


The Big Advantage of having a primary product with few 'add-ons' is obvious to anyone familiar with both products: the functionality is consistent, and the integration is seamless with SolidWorks. In Pro/E, every module is different: there are at least four different ways to delete something (and only onewill work), and sometimes nothing can be done other than deleting something and recreating it (limited editing ability).

 

[dgs]

... and sometimes nothing can be done other than deleting something and recreating it (limited editing ability).

Yeah, like when I create a cut and I meant a protrusion or I created a solid and I meant a surface. I have to delete the feature and redo it! I hate that about Pro ... oh wait, that's Solidworks.

 

[Mindripper]

In SolidWorks, you don't lose the sketch, only the feature: in Pro/E, you lose BOTH (unless you create the sketch as a curve first). But changing from an extruded feature to a cut or to a surface is a fairly rare event. Deleting stuff is something we do every day. In Pro/E, if you want to delete something, it has a variety of forms that are dependent on the function you are in. The 'delete' key might work, it might be 'Remove' within a sub-menu, it might be 'Delete' in a sub-menu, or it might be something else. Sometimes there is more than one way to do it, sometimes there isn't.


PTC could stand to polish up their product from a user standpoint. But they don't seem to be doing much development on Pro/E any more. Either they figure it's perfect, or they are working on simply replacing this dinsoaur Unix-based product. After all, it's the last of it's kind.

 

[dgs]

I'll say it again, I hope you're getting paid by SW for this stuff.

In SolidWorks, you don't lose the sketch, only the feature: in Pro/E, you lose BOTH (unless you create the sketch as a curve first). But changing from an extruded feature to a cut or to a surface is a fairly rare event.

Actually, in Pro/E you loose nothing. If I want a cut instead of a protrusion, it just works. Surface instead of a solid? It just works.

Cu to a protrusion is rare, I'll admit, but I use surface to solid and back all the time. Of course, it is quite rare in Saladworks 'cause you can't do it. Your only choise is dleet the feature, leave the children hanging, recreate and hope you can tie it all back together.

I won't argue with you about the UI inconsistencies in Pro/E, they are maddening.