Knowledge/Skill Levels on the Job

[ddrichards]

I'm not really ranting or raving, just seeking opinions and advice.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


I went into a company near Madison WI as a contractor, I did see a few signs of some skilled work having been done by someone there, or possibly there at one time. That being said, the majority of the work I saw was really rather poor, the Pro-E users I had direct contact with were seriously unskilled and really didn't seem to have any interest in learning or improving their skills, probably because they had guaranteed jobs there and didn't have to. They appeared to be "in" more due to having been there as drafters when they adopted Pro-E, or because of friendships or relations.


How do you deal with trying to do your job properly, when they try to cover up their lack of abilitywith unqualified and false criticism of your work? Also, any thoughts or suggestions onhow to handle the situation when their unskilled work affects your ability to do your job properly?


Some of the practices there made it unnecessarily difficult to simply setup a new design/assembly of the products we were designing. For example, someone there, or possibly, that had been there, seemed to believe that the base datums had to be utilized as

 

[design-engine]

I became so frustrated at what you are describing as a contractor so I quit.And started a school.

 

[mgnt8]

Working as a contractor is a little weird anyway when you think about it, but its got to be doubly bad when you feel like you're being prevented from reaching your goals. That's really the key - goals. What are they? Do you share the same goals and expectations withthe "b"s or with your boss. Thetough thing to understand sometimes is contracting is a service and in a way the "b"s are your customer. That's what makes is so screwey - we're engineers not grocery clerks. But if you go in knowing what you are there to accomplish and the "b"s also know and agree with this goal, than things will go a lot smoother. Is your job to teach the "b"s a better method of doing their job and are they receptive to this instruction? If so, go get 'em! Is your job to work with the "b"s within their framework and organization to achieve a common goal? If so, you may have some work to do.

 

[ddrichards]

It's likely that internal politics may have huge effects on it as well. I know in my last example my boss hated his boss, they had both been candidates for the General Manager spot and my boss lost. He constantly argued and debated the guy that won and whenever we were in a meeting together he was down right rude and angry. He was always talking about resisting, and that he should have resisted longer.Internal politics probably was part of the other situation also, probably more on a group level, and corporate level though.


As I see it, both the contractor and the employee are both supposed to be providing the same service for the company, the fact that it's more in the interest of the permanent employee to keep other people down and out rather than anyone find that he hasn't been doing all that much for the company, or to have someone end up with status that he craves, or be forced to do something some other way than he's been doing it.


Any way, no one has offered any advice dealing with this stuff, is the only answer to leave the industry? Some knowledgable person should be able to provide some ideas in dealing the the BS'ers in the work place??

 

[CAD2448]

Is this your first contract or have you been lucky up to now? I have been contracting for the best part of 20 years, some of the managers that i have had the pleasure of working for can only be described as 'real animals'


It is not uncommon for contactors to be seen to be the lowest of the low


It is not uncommon that we get put down when we propose change to an establised system


It is not uncommon that we get to make other peoples bad models work better


It is not uncommon to be blamed for someone elses poor performance.


How do we survive? immunise your self!


Accept that you live in the bottom of the pond, do not rock any passing boats, you are there to provide a service.


Ifthe companywill not accept that jobs can be done more effectivley and quicker using some of your methods don't fight it, take a long time on your work, use their system. Enjoy -your contract will last longer, you will make more money out of it- you will get bored but hang in there.


The manager who tries to make you look bad - bring him on, these are my speciality .


Think like this


'anythingthat this managersay's or does will be written down, remembered and used againsthim at the appropriate moment should the need arise- preferably in a high level meeting with HIS MANAGER'


Keep a log of all conversations, dates times etc, when he gives you instructions, try to getwork instructionsin writing. Propose sketches of the components you are to model, try to get him to modify your sketches or propose his own sketches, keep them all as evidence - use his design even if it is poor, it's what he want's. If you cannot get the instructions in writing make notes follow it up with a email back tothe managerstating that youare just working out a task list from the last meeting and that you have listed the key points and ask him if your interpretations of the conversation is correct and give him the opertunity to add his comments, end by saying that if you do not recieve any additional information from him that you will proceed with the work you have listed. Now stick rigidly to the agreed instructions and when he changes his mind, bring out the proof that you delivered what he wanted, what he agreed to - he won't like it - when he goes off on one you point out that you are providing a service for him, you listed the work you were going to do,he agreed with that list - you stuck to the list, and as a result he got what he agreed he needed!


If the worst comes to the worst and you cannot cope with the companys operation proceedures leave, move on


CAD2448

 

[mgnt8]

the fact that it's more in the interest of the permanent employee to keep other people down and out rather than anyone find that he hasn't been doing all that much for the company, or to have someone end up with status that he craves, or be forced to do something some other way than he's been doing it.

So intheprocess of completing the work that you were contracted to doin the outstanding manner that you're accustomed to, this direct employeefears for his job so badlyhe has no other option but to attack you? If you are so good and this company is so bad, than your best option may indeedbe to go elsewhere. If, on the other hand, you're competing with this person for the "status" you refer to than that's another matter. We all want to do a good job and receive therecognition that comes with it, but you're not working in a vacuum. I'm not saying go along to get along, but the high tide raises all ships. You need to find a way to succeed within the the structure of the organization, especially since, like 2448 said,you're on a lower rung as a contractor.


And stay positive. You come across as someone who feels like the world is against them.Maybe you're the one unluckypersonwhere this is true, butmy guess is you've got some room to improveif you're like the rest of us.Ultimately, you can only control what you do, but the key is doing it in a manner that picks people up around you. That's something that may only come with years of experience if ever at all. Its called leadership.

 

[AHA-D]

Working with different persons and different ways of doing CAD is basically not different when you're 'in' or 'out' of a company, although there is of course a difference in the position you start with. I have encountered people doing CAD in a way that I - as a boss - would dump, both as colleagues in the same company or as 'superior' when doing contracting. One major problem evaluating CAD-habits is that there are very little people that can evaluate methodology. 99% of the managers are only intrested in results and if the same drawing is the result of good workmanship or pure BS makes no difference : it's not visible. My first CAD-colleague didn't ever make a model that was reusable or even could stand any important modification. He modeled "boolean" : a chamfered hole was a cilinder and a cone subtracted from the model. Still he made it head of department and I left.


'In' or 'out' of a company, you still have to walk along the lines. If the company chooses not to apply relations in assemblies, that's the way it is, even if this means repositioning each bolt and nut at every modification. It's crazy but it's their time and their money.


What you can do is work for personal satisfaction. What I leave in a job is finished, robust and documented. It helps me when doing my work, it helps others coming behind and it even may put people on the right track if they get intrested.


Try to find people that are quality-aware. They may not understand how CAD works but they may appreciate a modification done in hours instead of days and may even get intrested in the way you manage. Work with the willing and leave the others where they are.

 

[design-engine]

mgnt8: I drove past your work place the other day. Just looked up and there it was.You don't have any contractors there do you?There was a story on NPR the other day about contractors working in defense. No one can say how many there are.

I have another question...

"How do you reduce your stress and double your pay?"

Answer: "go contract"
Edited by: design-engine

 

[mgnt8]

Bart, next time stop in. I'll give you a tour & we'll stop at the pub next to the train stop for a beer. No one can say how many contractors work in defense because they don't know or its top secret?

 

[ddrichards]

mgnt8: Everyone including the the employee and management has a responsiblity to the company, and tothemselves at an ethical level,to do their job well, to change and grow as necessary to satisfy that responsibility. If a manager, or an employee pridefully refuses to do so they're compromising their integrity and their eithical resonsibilities to the company.

 

[mgnt8]

It looks like there's some good advice on this post about how to handle tough job environments. I don't know what your situation is exactly. I'm just trying to give you my perspective on how I try to improve things I have control over. We don't have any contractors working here at present (although I could use a sketch artist who's good with markers if anybody knows one that'll work on a per operim basis). I have worked as a contractor a lot.The pay was great but so was the stress.My problem was I was so smart and everyone was so dumb. After a number of years on the job I was amazed at how much everyoneelse had learned

 

[Zestje]

If you have the luck of having to work for someone who just won't stop making your work harder instead of easier I agree with what CAD2448 says. It's a good and fair way to prove that you're not the one causing the trouble and you're doing your job well.
For some reason some people who made a mistake are too proud to admit it and try to blame it on someone else or suddenly suffer from very selective amnesia.
In my opinion you are much more of a man or woman if you admit your mistakes and learn from them. Especially if a boss doesn't do this he will lose all respect from the collegues he's in charge of and is no longer taken seriously. This can be deadly for the working atmosphere and quality of the team's results.

 

[phoxeoy]

Everyone comes to the table with different levels of experience. I have worked contract many times and everything that has been described has happened in one form or another. What I have noticed is that because you have different levels of experience you also have adaptation as well. If someone is poor at what they are hired to do then they become great at the "B.S." and when the chopping block comes around the talented often get let go. This happens a few times and what you get is an office filled with good old boys that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground but keep each other employed. The talented contractor walks in and has to work with people and a process that is so poorly constructed its amazing anything gets done.

A building meant for solutions is often turned into a building of excuses. The best thing to do is go else where because its only a matter of time that you are going to be the excuse.

 

[ddrichards]

mgnt8:


That's one issue I didn't mention directly, except that the "youngster" I referred too was of that mind set. I've run into a lot of people that aren't open to learning or improving because they think they're "extremely intelligent", and whatever comes to their mind is "gold", even if it really isn't. I believe that's one of the biggest learning disabilities that exists. Some "classically intelligent" people have failed to conquer Pro-E because, unlike school which is basically taking tests, and remembering/recalling everything you've read or heard doesn't help when there aren't step by step by step instructions any longer.

 

[ddrichards]

CAD2448:


I agree with most everything you say, but I've never had the opportunity to present a defense, have you been given the opportunity to present your case?


I've held on to things in the past but as I said, I've never, even once had the opportunity to defend myself or present my case. I have attempted to assert myself knowing that someone has "thrown me under the bus", but that doesn't seem to work either.


As far as doing exactly what you've been told to do, even knowing it's incorrect, I've been in situations where that doesn't work either. They'll use it to point out your inability to do your job and as I've said, without the opportunity to present your/my case, that's the way it conveniently ends. I've been given some ridiculous instructions that I'm certain were used in precisely that manner. Sometimes I've been able to get them to provide something other than just oral instructions, but they know that I won't have the opportunity to present it to anyone.

 

[CAD2448]

in answer to ddrichards


yes in the past 20 years about 3 three times ! the most recent was January this year, however i get no pleasure fromengaging in confrontation in the workplace but if the need arises when i have to defend myself i will.


I am currently working in a mediumsize company which has an english parent company who are an A1 organisation. However this smaller subsiduary is a mess, it has no defined design methods or standards,how anything gets designed, ordered, made or assembled amazes me! The models are often poorly constructed by designers who cannot use ProEe properly. they pass the models to 1 of 4 contractors (inc me) who are in a pool (the pond) and we create thedrawings as best we can. The othercontractors once worked for the parent company so try to follow the old companies standard. I have not worked for the parent company so do not know about this mythical standard and the other 3 guys are all old buddies and are not passing on their knowledge to me, which makes rthis a tough assignment. The thing is only one of the three can use ProE well. I have been here two years now and during this time the models and assemlies are growing bigger and bigger as the project grows. I pointed out that they needed to start to use skeletons, shrinkwraps, simp reps etc common large model management theory, i was creid down. One day the sever shut down, PTC came in produced a report and basically said what i had said. We were then all tested by PTC on our ability to use ProE, I deliberatley answered some questions wrong and came top of the results around 80% the next highest user contractors and premeanents was 49% one contractor was 16%.


Training was organised for all staff and contractors. Of the 5 staff, 1completed the course1 did 50% of the course and 3 were so important that they didnot need to go on the course they were needed else where. Result no change in working practices, bigger sever installed bad models continue.


One designer is like a firework (changes direction at will) no contractor in living memory prior to January this year hadgot a drawing past himright first time. In January he critisized my work and i was called before the manager, i took my slap and said nothing, the probelm was a few missed specs that i had never heard of which i was assured everyone used onthis type of component - end quote by designer - his fatal mistake.


One week later in a team meeting of all full time and contract staff in the design team. I had pulled all of the drawings that I had found on the system for the componenttype in question - 12 drawings all to different standard some with spec's on them some without produced in the last 18 months9 of which were passed as ok by the designer causing trouble. I simply asked again if we could establish a book of standards to design to as not everyone myself included was designing to the same standard and that we needed the company to get its act togetherand be run professionally - i highlighted the 9 passed by the complainant and he had no defence, just a big red face- I proved my case he who knew everything used different standards or omitted standards - case closed one fried designer.


The outcome - I have never been allowed to work for this designer scince and this suits me, if he has a problem its his problem, if asked i will work for him but i have a feeling he will not be asking.


Further a new CEO arrived a month ago he has reorganised the company, he is putting in place standard working practices,standards of conduct. He hired anew design manager two weeks ago, the guy went mad when he saw the mess the department was in- i think we are in for a lot of changes


CAD2448

 

[design-engine]

The progressive companies will have an on sight training class and invite the permanent, contractors and outside a representative or two from outside vendors as well. I saw SB powertools do this before and a few other large manufactures. Most of the time when organizers are planning the training they forget that it's a day rate they are paying for the class and do add a few more folks doesn't cost so much more.

Confrontation at the work place... I am confrontational by nature.With respect to drawing standards, i guess there is a lot to learn ... Mil spec or ansy14.5....I worked at one company that said everything should be Ansi standards and I went out and bought the book. When I turned in my first drawing the checker and manager called me into the office. (second day) and sat me down. They asked what are these boxes around the dimensions.I learned that day that every company has their own flavor of Ansi Standards.

I found (and beat me up please) that many of the older permanent employees just want to retire. They are in the class to get out of work or just fart around. Now Ive had a hand full of older guys that kick ass and learn like they are 18 too.Thats how i want to be when i'm old (I am old)... When I'm 62 years old. Managers can be a little slow too... Thats why when I get managers excited about Pro/E I get them to model their deck they plan to build in their back yard. (you need an assembly cut to cut away the longer boards) And try to explain that top down is better here or there to the managers.... OUCH!

One time at a major cellphone company (1994) I deleted almost 700 of 1500 features that did not do anything. One protrusion cut away a protrusion and so on and ... you have all seen the crap you get.

Design engine BTW... does not teach with 'step by step' instruction. We propose a challenge and share techniques to solve the problem. The above average intelligent folks tend to respond better to this type of environment. No one mentioned the adolescent that has a mild attention deficit disorder but... It is my belief that evolution made us board with the mundane. Give me something engaging and many will not stop for lunch to solve the problem.

I often go to HighSchools to make a presentation. My presentation to the drafting department is so engaging the instructor is often impressed that even after lunch the students are quite and engaged.
Edited by: design-engine