I’ve come to the conclusion

[phoxeoy]

I have been working with Pro/e for about 5 years and have worked from
2000i to Wildfire 2.0 and I have seen a lot of things added and even
taken out but you know, I'm here to tell ya'. Pro/Detail sucks the
biggest eggs from here to whazoo. Everytime I create a drawing there is
a limitation with Pro that just provents me from doing something. COME
ON, lets get the basics right here and then worrie about adding new 3D
features/functions. Face it, Pro/E has come up short in the detailing
side of things sense the beginning. I would really like to know when
PTC is going to get there head out of there ass and improve on detail.
It would make my life easier.

 

[Moroso]

What exactly is the problem you are experiencing, maybe we can help

 

[ScottAW]

I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pro/E Detail has ALWAYS been a royal PITA.



Then again, detailing itself is just a PITA to begin with.

 

[dans]

phoxeoy you are lucky I have been using Pro-E for a total of 12 years and I do think it is great solid modeling software. But I work in a manufacturing <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Co.</st1lace> where the design and the product cannot be made or shipped without a Drawing. I know that in this day and age the ultimate goal is to get to a paperless society but I believe that it will be another 50 years before that ever happens. What I am trying to say is I think PTC better take more emphasis at improving the Detailing side before they loose a lot of customers to cad systems that have better capabilities of producing detail drawings easier and faster. I think PTC needs to look at some of the basic 2D software packages to find out where the improvements need to be done. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


Don't give up I am sure it will get better!

 

[phoxeoy]

Dans,


Why I'm I lucky?


I guess what I'm getting at is PTC has changed so much but the Detailing side remains the same PITA, as ScottAW puts it. Flexiblity is what I'm after. I wish, if I had a dimension in a linar style and I need it to be just a one arrow leader I could change it without creating a note instead. If I create a note in its place, know I don't have my tolerances. Maybe sometimes I would like to change where the location of my attached diameter dimension is. If itspointing to the top of mydiameter and I want it pointing to the bottom guess what,...I can't edit the attachment. I have to create a new dimension. Don't give me the option to edit attachment if its not going to work in every scenario. Editing a surface finish symbol,... don't get me started! The list goes on and on.

 

[dans]

Phoxeoy I agree with you a 100% the problem is that PTC is not listening they seem to have the grand scheme that drawings will go away that is why I am saying that if PTC does not address this issue soon they will continue to loose more and more customers. You know just as well as I do that most of the commands that need to be used in making a good detailed drawing have been around for many years in other software packages. I truly believe that if PTC could accomplish the basic needs of the detailing side could be the best modeling and detailing package out there.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

 

[cncwhiz]

[url]http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=PMTC& amp;script=350[/url]

 

[peterjfrancis]

I've been a user of Pro/Engineer for 3 years now and I am only now getting to grips with it.


Prior to that I used AutoCAD for about 10 yearsand then Mechanical Desktop for about 5 years. If PTC could have the flexibility of AutoCAD on the detailing side and Pro/E's modelling capabilities they would have a world beating product.


My major gripe though is with the help system. It just doesn't provide useful help to a'new' user like myself. Before youask I've been on the PTC courses but there is only so much you can learn from their course material. The corner stone of a good piece of software is a good help system and I'm afraid Pro/E doesn't have it.


The most useful help I've found on Pro/E is by typing what I'm looking for into Google !

 

[phoxeoy]

Pro/E help is like there phone Tech support, It speaks a different language.

 

[BonesNTX]

I somewhat agree...In 1995 I was saying "how could they ever survive if the drawings created are primarily embarrassing to send to a shop?"


There have been improvements but the acrobatics involved to create an almost proper representation are rediculous at times.

 

[phoxeoy]

I just noticed something today that I have never seen in earlier versions of Pro/E before. (I'm working with WF2) I created a Gol Tol in Pro/Detail as a Free note, this is because Pro/e wouldn't let me put the *&^# thing where I wanted it. Everythings fine until I go back into the model and find some Gol tols hanging out in space. These of course are the Gol Tols that I put in Pro/Detail. What purpose does this have? I understand the whole associate thing but given the limitation of Pro/Detail. I have to do a lot of off the wall, backward and wierd things in Pro/Detail just to make the Print look right. Now, it seems, if I do things like put in a Gol Tol in pro/Detail because it wont go in the way I want it in the 3D level its going to mess up my 3D model file with crap hanging out in space. I just don't get it.

 

[dans]

Phoxeoy I tried putting G-tol's on the drawing and they work fine. When you put a G-tol on a drawing if you put it in using a edge or surface you need to make the G-tol tangent leader, no arrow then they will show up the right way in both the drawing and model see image below.


View attachment 727

 

[surfdancer]

In our shop, we model with Wildfire, create the views in the drawing mode, then export them via IGES for final detailing.


It's a PITA, but that's the only way we can generate drawings that won't ruin our reputation for quality.

 

[ScottAW]

Surfdancer - I've heard of other companies doing this. It's very
sad that this has to happen, and I would hope that any PTC employees
that read this forum take messages like this to heart and realize that
they need to focus more of their efforts on the detailing apsect
of Pro/E.

 

[phoxeoy]

Dans,


Thats not the problem. Here is an example:View attachment 729

 

[ankarl]

Interesting discussions, I'll probably raise hell here now....


During our 10 years of using Pro/E we have never found anything that really mattered that we couldn't do in detail.


Most people I meet that says Pro/Detail is totally crap has either no training or experience or has used 2D-drafting packages very long.
In those systems it doesnt matter how you design, you can always make a nice drw.


In Pro/E you must think of manufacturing and drafting when modelling. Doing so makes it easy to create the drw's. Here its easy to get problems since many companies separate design and drafting. Since both diciplines have different objectives drafting might be difficult.
We dont use dedicated draftsmen, the design engineer is responisble for the whole chain from prototype to final production documentation. Therefore almost all our dimensions and tolerances are model driven and no G-tols are written manually.


I totally agree we you that the online manuals are crap compared to the older printed manuals, the older ones contained a lot of graphics that said a lot more then the text.


Pro/E has a lot of good things and can do a lot more than many of us now but it's normally very hard to find it if you dont have the time to play around a lot with the system. I've been using it since -95 and still learning things everyday, almost.


My own experience is limited to AutoCad 2D and Pro/E.
I'm sure there are other 3D packages that perform better than Pro/E in drafting.


Support organisation, well sometimes its good sometimes its not...
The language is no problem for all users, including me and a huge lot of others, that are not fluent in English, we are then on the same level.


Hope I havent upset too many, this is just my personal reflections and I have no intent to discredit any of the other posts.


regards
Anders

 

[dans]

Phoxeoy the g-tol that you added to the hole is a show dim., added dim. or a note. The reason that I am asking is that I had no problem adding the g-tol to all types. The best way to add g-tols is onthe model and uses the show dim. and g-tol under the show dim. command. But if you do createthe g-tol on the drawing as long as you pick attach to dim. it will show up correctly on the model. Now you can add a g-tol to a note by using the symbol box that shows up when adding a note. Thistakes longer to make but is some cases it is necessary.See attached JPEG. Also I would like to say that I do agree with Anders that the best way to put in dimensions and g-tols is by getting from the model as model driven dim's and g-tols. I do believe that PTC is making more effort in making the detailing side better because of all the comments they have received over the years. (Hang in there it will get better).
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />View attachment 730

 

[mgnt8]

Surfdancer - I've heard of other companies doing this. It's very sad that this has to happen

It is very sad, not because of anything PTC did but because so many companies are implementing Pro/E without people who can adequately use it. I can't evenfathom how unproductive it is to send out unfinished drawings in IGES to be detailed. There's a big breakdown somewhere.

 

[ScottAW]

Yes... it's a huge deal if you ask me too. Not only is it not
efficient in use of time, you lose the parametric capabilities!
So a slight change means you have to make your drawing all over
again!

 

[phoxeoy]

All the parts that we create get translated using other software to be used in a production tool software. All the data has to be in the model, the drawing is some what a after thought. The big problem that I have is the lack of flexiblity with the information within Detail. Our models are most likely to be more complete then most out there, But Pro/E just doesn't have the munipulation power to do what I wantwith the information thats alrighty there. Can anybody tell me why is it that I can't have a Dimension that runs Veritcal? Why does every dimension have to be horizontal? You know how much room I would have if I could rotate a Dimension 90 degrees. What about rotating the text on a surface finish so I could have a surface finish that at a 90 degree and the text read normal. What about a Datum that attached to Thread information, to do that I have to edit the text and put in @[-a-@] yeah cause thats really associative! By doing that do you think my datum shows up when I want to create aGol tol, nope.