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Solidworks vs proe

I

iturner_frl

New member
Solidworks vs pro/Engineer


I feel that there is a lot of pressure to move to solidworks from ourmanagement. The main reasons are cost and one of the directors introduced solidworks at a previous company.


We currently use pro/e and would like to hear reasons form people who have used pro/e and solidworks why we should avoid solidworks.





Ian Turner
 
My 3d experience has been: used ProE 3-4 yrs; left for new startup company where the M.E. dept consisted of ME and was able to select my own tool - chose SolidWorks partially because of cost (3 yrs until we ran out of funding); since then I've been on ProE for about 4 yrs.


The hardest transition was going from SolidWorks back to ProE. There was so much I was no longer able to do in ProE but could in SolidWorks. And so much that ProE did that I didn't want to do! Now, I've grown comfortable with ProE and know the work-arounds, etc. But if I had a choice, I think I'd be back on SolidWorks.


About 90% of the design work I do is sheetmetal. Not getting too cute with forms, complex surfaces or whatever. If I were doing this type of work I might give you a different answer, but I'm not.


<tg>
 
SolidWorks has poorer:
1.) Relations (need "Microsoft excel"):
[url]http://www.mcadcentral.com/solidworks/forum/forum_posts.asp? TID=484&KW[/url]=


2.) Dimensions:
[url]http://www.mcadcentral.com/solidworks/forum/forum_posts.asp? TID=480&KW[/url]=


3.) Redefinition (you need know everything at the beginning)
[url]http://www.mcadcentral.com/solidworks/forum/forum_posts.asp? TID=453&KW[/url]=


4.) Commands "Rotate View" need always selected rotate point
[url]http://www.mcadcentral.com/solidworks/forum/forum_posts.asp? TID=447&KW[/url]=
 
Iturner_frl:


I depends what you're using the software for and what other components you are using (i.e. PDM software). Don't let anyone tell you SolidWorks is less expensive than ProE. It's not. And don't let the SW sales guy tell you you can import ProE files and maintain parametrics. This only works if you design hockey pucks.


I work for a design firm and have been using SolidWorksfor aboutyear (painfully).I have a list of complaints if you would like me to forward it (provide me with your email address).


If time is of any concern on your projects, don't do it. Mouse clicks are trippled in SW.
 
Iturner_frl,

I recently had a Pro-e session internally at my work. One of the first things I did was give a quiz to see how familar the attendees were with basic Pro-e concepts. I also asked what software they would prefer to use if given a choice from a list including Sw and Pro-e. For those that chose Sw, I cross referenced their quiz scores and found they were missing many basic Pro-e skills.

I would say they find Pro-e difficult for lack of training as much as for its own idiosyncracies. What is even more interesting is when I ask them personally how to do a task in Sw they do not know that procedure either.

To me, this issue has alot to do with attitude. Engineers using autocad that have not switched to 3d find any 3d software difficult, and that is understandable. If a person is willing to learn and tries to apply themselves by getting training and even searching BB like this one, then they will find it not so hard. When I started using Pro-e, It took me weeks to do certain tasks that I can help people learn in hours now.

So what is best? Each has their own merits. I would say that whatever you choose all comes down to what products you make, how much you can afford for the "modules", and how well you train your people.

Some ID firms use as many softwares as possible and hire an expert for each so they can adapt to any customer. I think that is really the point, whatever makes money with increased productivity will pay for itself. The 3d software is a tool that should be transparent to the process and allow you to work, not keep you from it.


cheers,

M
 
I am in the same situation. We are currently running a product that will no longer be supported. As typical SW won't stop calling wanting to swith us to SW. We have one seat of SW , Pro , UG but none of us use any on a daily basis. We use it to translate customer files. We have a customer base that mostly uses Pro, but quite a few that uses SW. We make custom rubber and plastic parts and mold. The shapes we model can be fancy and shapely (no sheet metal here).


I know Pro is a high end system ...lately they reduce their price (Foundation pkg) to compete with SW.


I also uses Pro a bit and yes it can be dificult at first.


I personally have experience with SW years back and crashing is a common thing. They have an intro surfacing since 2007 (so-so), Pro, if properly equipped, tackles surfacing , no problem. TRAINING is a must here, otherwise won't work.


Base on talking to season engineers, I would pick Pro... survey onnewer engineer seems togo SW. Upon closer inspection, newer engr always wants to pick an easy way, no maturity in approach. Season (experienced) engineer usually have multiple approach and typically prefer the robustness of Pro.


TOYOTA uses Pro today to do their drive train, but uses CATIA for shapely stuff. Most big companies uses CATIA, UG, or Pro. Smaller companies uses SW because it cheap and works well for AutoCAD replacement.


This is a hard topic, I would appreciate comments etc..
 
There is no comparison with the Data Management
system that PTC uses (Intralink /Windchill vs using PDM Works. I guess if you
are not concerned about Release & Revision control not to say concurrent
engineering you can get by with SW
 
Another huge problem we've recently discovered with SW...


We need to run several versions of software at the same time. We can do this with ProE by changing the install pathconfig file.With SolidWorks, you CAN install it to a new folder, but the new install only finds the default paths set up by the original install (i.e. drawing formats, library files, default hole tables, etc.). You have to mannually change every path (there's at least 30) by browsing within Solidworks after installation...
smiley7.gif
 
I've had Flex3C for quite some time, now at WF 3, and I have had a great deal of difficulty learning it as I make my living machining, and it's difficult to find a block of time to get past the basics. I did find a nice block of time over the holidays, and made very good progress. The key to this was learning to use references and datums, something that I will need to get much more proficiency. Once there, much of the other functionality, including assembly, and mechanism seemed to be a much easier task.

I should add that I also have an ACIS CAD application called Concepts Unlimited, which will be familiar to anyone that has used Ashlar-Vellum or Cobalt. It is a very easy to use feature based modeler (not parametric or relational).

One of the engineers I work with often (I am an ME as well) is a Solidworks user, since the 90's, and I was taken aback to find that he had never used surfaces or much beyond the basic functionality, excepting sheetmetal. Doesn't need much for building automated equipment I suppose, but that was my prime connection with anything SW.

Now comes the kicker. I had the opportunity to purchase SolidWorks Office Premium at a discount (which was coincidentally that same as maintenance), which would be useful for supporting iron mold work for a growing customer. Once installed, I ran through a little tutorial, and of course, the similarities with Pro/E are quite apparent, though I found the layout very busy compared to Pro/E, and SW makes many more assumptions that give the illusion of easier use.

I'll have to leave it at that, as I haven't opened SW for about a week, but I will conclude that SW is easier to learn and get a fast start on. Pro/E, on the other hand takes more effort early on, but once learned, will put you at a much higher proficiency level for later development of additional techniques.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, both are suitable tools. Having gone through my little climb on Pro/E, I find that I am looking forward to getting the time in over the next year to master Flex3C and the other options that I have.
 
iturner_frl


If you take a large pole on the differences between Solid Works and Pro/E I think you will find the general consensus to be the same: Solidworks is a little easier to use on the front end but lacks many desirable features in the long term. I have used Pro/E for much longer than Solid Works, but I like to think my Solid Works skills are, well...Solid! Just a few things I have noted are:


1. Cannot create curves from equations easily. I had to use VB to generate the points necessary for equation driven curves.


2. Cannot create automation easily. Pro/E has Pro/Program, which I have found to be very useful in automating parts like gears, bearings etc.


3. 2d functionality was horrible (I know..who cares! But I actually use it quite a bit for napkin sketches and incorporating 3d models in 2d drawings). I have been told that SW now incorporates AutoCad as its 2d package. I have not used it lately so I cannot verify this.


4. SW database management was non-existent. You had to manually create search paths to the place you wanted to store parts, assemblies, libraries etc. I wont even go into the nightmare that was. If you choose to run several seats of Pro/E, the investment of Intralink will be worth every penny. In fact, in my opinion, it is one of the main reasons Pro/E is so good.


5. SW had one feature I liked when I first started using it. It has something called solid bodies, which, in short allows you to use a part as the first feature of a second part. This is great when you want a casting that represents one part and the machining of the casting is another part. Unfortunately, If there are several machined parts from one casting, or if the nesting gets to deep, SW slows to a crawl.


I used instances in Pro/E as a work around to this issue but that was not without its problems. Pro/E now has inheritance and merge features which have more or less solved this.


As far as the cost difference, the company I now work for looked at both Pro/E and SW. It came down to price, and believe it or not, Sequoia (Our PTC Rep) sold us 3 seats of foundation adv, with advanced assembly ext., 3 seats of Intralink and one seat of Mechanica for $5000.00 less than the SW rep was willing to go on an equiv. SW package. (3 seats of SW with one seat of cosmos). It was a no brainer.


I guess it all depends what quotas have to be met etc., but I do think you can get Pro/E for the cost of SW, or maybe even less. In the end, you have to do what makes you comfortable, but Pro/E is the more Solid...Modeler!
Edited by: brchapman
 
Listen to Magneplanar. I've used both applications. They are are merely tools to help you achieve your goals based on how far you want to go. Ability to design always rests with the individual. None of these applications will suffice if you are inherently incapable.


cmb.
 
Design comes from the knowledge, experience and creativity of the designer. The drafting/modeling package does nothing more than allow him/her to convey that information. I don't think anyone here is questioning that fact. If the assumption is made that the individual in question is capable, then it is OK to look more closely at the "tools".


While the end result of Pro/E and SW should be the same, the methods used and the time taken to get there can be completely different. It is wise to look at ones needs, the time and resources available, the cost and other factors thatcaneffectthe successful implementation of a new CAD system.


If I want to check the ID of a bore, there are many ways to do it. I could use a set of calipers, which are quick and easy, but accuracy's not thatgreat. I could use a telescoping gage and an OD mic. or maybe an ID mike. both of which improve my accuracy but are a little more difficult and time consuming to use. How about a dial bore gage? Now I have decent accuracy and ease of use, but the tool is a little more costly and setting it up requires some skill. Then there is the Tri- mic. Very accurate but limited greatly in bore size andrather expensive. Or I could use the ultimate, a CMM.


The point is, while all of these "tools" are used for the same thing, it would be crazy not to analyzethe needs and study the tools before deciding on which oneto use.
Edited by: brchapman
 
brchapman,

I agree with you that the tools may have unique benefits and one might be more suitable to the style or preference of each person. Anything you spend 5K and up for you should be able to test run awhile. To see how it fits and which way of doing it works best for you. Even within the specific software there is this variation between designers methodology.

It is important that people realize that these softwares are tools, as you said, and not get hyped by emotional attachment. My point before was that people form allegiances and hardly have any knowledge. If they really knew how to work the bells and whistles they might find they like something else.

I prefer pro-e but I just got Sw 2007 because I want to be flexible. I don't limit it to that either since having rhino and maya do some great things too.

Straight up question then...which do you prefer and why.

For me, I learned on pro-e first so I am biased, but I see some promise with solidworks. I don't have to pay for any of them so I choose to have a wide variety and when I need a custom tool, my "toolbox" is full.

have a good one...

M
 
One big issue I would stress is all of the data that you already have in PRO, and that converting it to SW would make it all dumb solids that you cannot modify.
It is funny how businesses look at the cost of the software and maintenance and do not look at the incidentals of things like conversion of the files, etc.
We have over 30 licenses of PRO in the US alone, and 2 SW seats for Vendor stuff, and because the 2 managers feel that SW is easier to use but have never tried PRO (go Figure) and I can say that we pay MUCH MUCH More for the SW software maintenance than the PRO. What I found out is that we pay 20% (or there about) on the SUGGESTED RETAIL of the SW licenses, which comes in just over 7k. We pay about 3100 for our Flex 3c mind you we have a long term agreement that gives us additional points off. The Solidworks agreement is a year to year and they would not give us a long term one with discount.
My point is it is all in negotiation and if you go to PTC with the cost concern they will work on keeping you from SW.
 
Magneplaner,


Like you, I grew up modeling with Pro/E, (Rev 9 on a Apollo workstation, yuck!) so my opinion will be greatly biased toward Pro/E and probably not much use to a newbie looking to get into 3D for the first time.


Pro/E has been a love/hate relationship over the years, but I have learned how to massage her in all the right places to get what I want. Pro has an incredible amount of tools available, if the user knows where to look and how to use them. Unfortunately for many people, this part is many times not intuitive and can be a little time consuming/frustrating to learn,


My experience with SW's left me feeling like I needed more. It was easy to learn and do basic modeling/drawing functions, but lacked the depth that Pro/E has (Advanced feature creation, surfacing, automation/programming, data mngt.,etc.). Also, and I know this is just a visual perception,SW always seemed a little cartoony to me.It has been a couple of years since I used SW, and it has probably seen many upgrades and improvements since then.


To summarize,I found SW easy to learn/use and I know it has a place in many applications, but Pro/Ehas been and currently still is my Cad system of choice.


Enjoy the day....
 
Let's all remember something about Pro/E vs. Solidworks

Pro/ENGINEER is a High End CAD Software and Solidworks is a Mid Range CAD Software. If you are going to compare them, you need to remember that you are not comparing apples to apples here.

Pro/ENGINEER hands down is far more powerful than Solidworks as you would expect from a High End CAD Package. Dassult makes a High End CAD Package also and it's called Catia V5, not Solidworks.

I have been using Pro/E for over 12 years and have used Solidworks. Solidworks is a great program and has improved with time, but still falls short in power and flexibility. What you expect from a CAD Software should be the real question. You can't compare them to each other accurately.

We tried Solidworks at one point and realized that it did not have the ability to model and control extremely complex surface models like Pro/E could. The large assembly management was also an issue.

Wildfire is much easier to learn and the foundation advantage package starts at $4999. Not too far off from Solidworks price. The maintenance is a little more but not by a huge amount.

Some say that Solidworks is easier to learn, but I think it's all based on perspective. If you are a carpenter and I teach you how to use 10 tools to do your woodwork with, you can start building something quickly. If I teach you how to use 100 tools, you can still start building something quickly, but also have the tools available to build much more complex furniture than you could with the 10 tools.

Many people look at Solidworks and claim it's easier, but they don't realize the limitations of only having 10 tools to work with. This is just an example. Pro/E also provide the same 10 tools to work with and an additional 90 tools. This does not mean that Pro/E is harder to learn, just harder to master.

Why? Because you have many more tools at your disposal if you choose to use them. I can model anything in Pro/E that can be modeled with Solidworks. But if I start to dig into my full tool set on Pro/E, I can model something Solidworks can't.

This is the difference. I actually have a real world example of this and had the top SolidWorks people try to help us accomplish the modeling problem we had with their software. They could not and Pro/E could.

They are not the same. High End vs. Low End.
 
I just purchased PRO/e with the Piping extension. I have used PRO/e and Solidworks in the past. I was a user of Alibre for the last four years with the pro version. I finally got fed up with the limitations in Alibre and decided to research the best options out there. I use Catia V5 and I-DEAS at work. So I've played with them all. Pro/e is the most robust at keeping the associativity between parts and it offers the most tools in the base package. Believe it or not, Solidworks was more expensive than Pro/e and it is not as powerful. If you are just trying to save money on the initial investment, get Alibre. If you want the best that money can by with the least cost of ownership, get Pro/e. I lost money on jobs because Alibre could not do what the others could. I learned my lesson the hard way. PTC will sell foundation advantage cheaper if you ask.Try to get two or moreresellers competing for your business for the maximum deal. With the prices they sell it for it doesn't make sense to get any of the others unless a large customer demands it of you.
 
Telecomguy, i feel your pain. Secondly, who mis-informed<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/B]ralexy. With Solidworks you have the OPTION to use excel, which makes BOM ordering SO easy. Pro/E doesn't offer that. Second with your dimension post, I didn't understand what the heck you were saying.


I look at a lot of the post in the forum and wonder how in the heck could someone POSSIBLY say Pro/E is more robust, more powerfulthan Solidworks then i realize that I am IN A PRO/E FORUM. And realize that Solidworks doesn't need a helpforum because it is much more intuitive, not as complicated to do the same thing.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><O:p></O:p>
Edited by: jelston
 
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