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Pro-E / PTC sucks

All said above is true.

Some of the quotes on one hand:

> I am a relatively new Pro-E user... I feel like I wasted my money... CAD that says "I can't figure this out, giving up"... I need simple interfaces... It has it quirks... Three month 40 hrs a week and still trying to figure it out... Pro can be frustrating sometimes when trying to accomplish the simple... Pro/E is a pain in the @SS... More user friendly and easier to work with...


Some of the quotes on the other hand:

> It is an advanced 3d mathematical solid geometry program... I would never go back... Not even close... To do a lot of
automation... The things you can do with surfaces is the cream of the
crop... It carries baggage of days gone by... If you are willling to learn it... Our rates would be down...

So the conclusion is easy:

If you are a newbee and designing simple things: Do not use Pro/E.

But if you have experience, and things are getting complex in geometry or design automation: Pro/E is the package.

It is in it's name: Pro/Engineer is for Professionals.

And yes, that is hard to learn, has a bad interface and a poor support. But that's not what Pro's demand. They want modeling power, robust models, complex G3 surfaces, large assemblies and advanced automated designs. They're Pro's. They do not call the helpdesk on an error message. They click #Fix Model in the nostalgic menu's. Mattraby: push yourself to become one too.

Huug


PS: PTC does suck.
 
I agree to a point. You can be very proficient in ProE, but run across a problem and you can't tell if there is a hidden feature somewhere, (ProE loves hidden stuff), or a bug with ProE itself. Calling PTC for support is much like a english speaking white male asking for federal aid for school, it's just not going to happen.


I work with two guys that have used ProE for 15 plus years and me for 7. I know more than they do. They have been doing the same thing in ProE for years and never had to use surfacing or even build an assembly. They didn't know anything about relations or family tables. When they detailed a part, they created all the dimensions and when they needed a table, they draw the table!


I guess its much like microsoft excel, it can do a lot more than be a spreadsheet but if all you use it for is a spreadsheet than...
 
I think mattraby is a solidworks sales person and wants to propigate pain for PTC. (going back to the original post)

Edited by: design-engine
 
Dear Mr. Bart Brejcha:


What an idiot you are. Let's just set the tone for this message up front.I'm a salesman? Who are you to insult me by calling me a salesman, when you are obviously the lower form of scum....the "trainer."You are the type whoneeds people to tell you how wonderful you are, that your Pro-E expertise is unparalleled. You make me wet with your superiority. I'm all a-quiver with excitement that you would respond to my humble warning to others that Pro/E is more suited to people who work for large companies that can afford for people to sit around on their butts, while people like me are GETTING THE JOB DONE. If you had a real job, you wouldn't be posting to this email so late into the night.


I also believe that you can't make a decent living doing design, employing your skill and testing your ability to create mechanismsand master new challenges. No, you teach the same generic tutorials day after day.You tackle nothingnew until the PTC gods smile down with a new release of $hitfire (...oops...Wildfire.) Then you have a new bookfrom which to teach. Luckily, someone made up the basic models to go with the tutorials, then sent you a cd to work with or you'd be totally lost, wouldn't you Bartholomew?


My original intent for this forum was only to vent my frustration. PTC tech support is, well....lacking?The software is powerful ,but difficult to learn. Most of you got it. You understand my frustration and recognize that Pro/E is not a "one-size-fits-all" solution. Under different circumstances, I would love to master the software and be overpaid for my time. That is not the case, however, I have work to do today. I don't have 2 days to fix a model that won't regenerate. I have two days to design it, detail it, build it, and ship it. Therefore, I amtrying to inform poor idiots like meto get involved with open forums like these where information, not insults, are freely exchanged.


Humbly Yours,


Matt


P.S. While we're exchanging insults, you misspelled propagate. Also, it is easy to propagate pain when no one is working toward repairing the opengash that is the problem.
 
I do not agree with the assessment that PTC Tech Support is
bad. I found a problem with the new flange feature and tech support has
been calling me every week with updates on the status. They ALWAYS call
me back within an hour or two. They offer to examine models I have
problems with. They are great. The best support I ever got from a
software company. Call Micro$oft and try to get the same level of help.



I have used trials of both Solidworks and Inventor (Nothing long term).
They are not so easy to use. They both use different interfaces that must
be learned. It doesn't seem they have as much custom abilities (ie -
Pro/Program, JLink) right out of the box. I couldn't set up elaborate
relations to control parts. All of this might be easy to do, but not if
you do not know the software, which is the same reason some think Pro is hard
to use.



We have assemblies using over 250 input parameters to drive custom
products. We can change width, height, thickness, components, placement,
etc...etc....etc.... Most was programmed just using Pro/Program and
relations. We are now looking into using J/Link to extend these models
and do more automation. Can Solidworks or Inventor do this without a full
time VB or C++ programmer on staff? Talk about the total cost of
ownership. 60K a year so a non-engineer can automate your product line
seems like a profit killer.
 
I don't know what side of the planet your on Conrat but my experance and countless others have not seen the level of support you speak of. I almost never get a call back, I'm the one that calls back repeatedly to get answers. I have a hard time understanding the support persons and they have a hard time understanding me. It does not make for a very pleasing experience nor a productive one. In most cases we have to figure out the problem by other means in order to go forward.


One example was when we upgraded from Solaris 9 to 10. The embedded browser had problems with accessing files to upload to Windchill. Everytime you click on the browse button the window would come up and put a "?" in front of all the files and would not let you select anything. PTC support did not know what the problem was and had to do some "looking into it". Well, after a couple of days with out hearing anything I went to SUN just to see if it had something to do on there end of things. I found on there web site a link to an patch from PTC that is just for this problem. This tells me one or two things, either the tech guy did not understand my problem (could be the case) or the level of expertise is low. The patch is their patch, they should have suggested it from the beginning when I told them my problem.


Its funny that I went toSUN.com and in the support search bar I typed in my problem and I get the answer to my problem on the first page. When I go PTC support page I do the samething and I get page after page of unrealated crap.


What do you do when you can't find the answers from calling or searching there web site? I tell you what most people do,....nothing. We keep paying the 5000+ bucks for maintenance, bend over and we take it. We are just users, what do we know.
 
The Western Hemisphere.



Anyway, I cannot disagree more. They may not be the best and they
can't compare to the support offered here on this site, but I find them
fairly competent and no worse than the thousands of other software
support out there.



I find that usability issues are best cleared up by coming here, as
there are a lot of folks on the site who have had the same problems.



As for software problems, I find them receptive and responsive.
Like I said, they have called me every week regarding the flange issue
and I can't ask for more. They may not have a fix yet, but they
are aware of the problem and are working to correct it.



We are running on Windows, which I assume has a larger installed
base. Maybe that is why my questions have been answered
quicker. I assume the more exotic setups are not documented as
well. If this is the case, it is a problem with PTC, no
doubt. I just have not had the same experience that you have had.



I am sure if I had started my 3D adventures on Solidworks or Inventor,
I would have a much different view. But I know Pro and I can use
it. I also think that if I had started with Wordperfect, I would
think Word was inferior, but I didn't. And I wouldn't use
Wordperfect over Word if you paid me...well, maybe if you paid me.....



I say, use what you like and accept others are going to do the same. That's what they make translators for.



Jim
 
I have to jump in on this one.


I have been using Pro/E for a long time and rarely call PTC for any help. I do, however, rely on these types of "support" sites for help. I do not spend my time complaining about the service, but try to find a workaround to complete my task. I have experience in other packages and still choose Pro/E over all of them.


My question to you all is this...how big is the problem that you are stopped in your tracks and cannot complete a task? I am the one with the most experience at my present company and I do not have a go to guy for help, but rarely find the need. I have the annoyance crashes but know enough about the software to make it do what I want. I guess that comes with experience.


I am not defending or supporting PTC, but still believe that they are putting out a quality product and are attempting to get it "right". None of us will be completely satisfied because we all use it differently.


Just my two cents.
 
I second that hfd36jtb.



I am the admin here, which puts me in your boat. I often
compromise and workaround a problem, rather than setting on my hands
waiting for PTC to fix something.



I normally only go to them for software specific issues, such as crashes, or programming errors in the software.



MCAD Central is the place to go for usability issues (as well as other
issues) as I think the vast diversity of users nearly guarantees a
response quickly.



The main difference with your post and mine is, I am defending the
software. I think it is great and it keeps getting better.
But I know not everyone agrees. For those who do not, use what
you like and "Just Do It".



Jim
 
Hi all...


Im with Phoxeoy... We have actually given up all together with maintenance.. PTC NEVER calls back, and when ( if ) we ever get through to someone we'd need to hire a new member of staff to translate !!


Im a very patient person... but PTC's customer service is poor, and thier tech guys are even worse..


Do they even know anything about pro/engineer ??? sometimes it seems not !!
 
Has anyone had any experience with the competition's tech
support. Is Solidworks and Inventor tech support on par or better
than PTC? I have no experience with them and am curious.



Jim
 
I have call solidworks tech support. They are much faster than PTC. In fact they even take over your computer and show you how to fix the problem. TO compair the responde time, I'll say high speed vs. dail-up connection.
 
PTC once took over my computer to help fix an Intralink issue.
They use WebEx (I think). Maybe I have a nicer voice on the phone
(yeah...right). I dunno. I guess I have been lucky up to
this point. Who knows what the future holds, but I may be back
here in a few months ranting about their lackadaisical support as well.



Also on a curious note, how does Solidworks allow for swapping
components programmatically? Do they have something equivalent to
Pro/Program. I don't mean a VB interface, but something directly
in the software? How about Inventor?



We have a guy here who used to use IDEAS and he said that you couldn't
do those things in it, without going into a seperate environment, like
VB or C. I am only familiar with Pro, so I am green on these
issues when it comes to other software.



With our products, we must be able to quickly and accurately drive the
components and placements, along with a boatload of cuts and other
features soley form a text file that reads in parameters. When I
used the trials of Solidworks, I could not find this functionality
without looking into advanced programming languages.



Jim
 
hfd36jtb, you asked about the level of the problem that stops progress. Some big some not but all of them are problems that need to be addressed at some point.


I deal with PTC support a lot more than most because what we do here. We use lots of PTC products, (ProE, Toolkit, Windchill, etc... the list goes on and on) We develop software that works with and on top of PTCs products. We also use ProE to design and so on to R&D and Test the software that gets created. I never call PTC support for "how to use something" because we know the products very well. What we have problems with is the limitations andinteractivity between PTC's products.


Everytime I have called PTC, they never have an answer to any of my problems. This is largely due to the fact of the level of complexity of any one issue we have. The Tech guys never know and always have to ask "one of the experts" as they like to say.


I think what is most likely happening is the call gets tossed to the side for a later date so they can answer simple questions that come in and in the process we get over looked for quite a long time.


Something was mentioned about not having thetime to complain about the support. Well thats a good idea, let them think that the support they provide is good so nothing ever gets done about it.


Its not just PTC either, I have notice that support in the US is much like a buzz word rather than actual support. Companies put in just enough to say "hey we got support here".


The level of complexity verys from user to user. All that ProE can do and what people do with ProE are two very different things. This might have something to do with way some have good support with PTC and others do not.
 
My wife runs a call center that does CS for a broadband company.
They basically have a script they follow. If they cannot answer
at the end of the script, the turn it over to a higher level of
CS. I think this is common in customer service, regardless of the
product or service. You couldn't afford to have enough experts on
hand to handle all of the calls. This is why there is a tiered
setup, with complex calls taking longer as it makes it up the chain.



Jim
 
Skip all that call center sh*t and go with this talkboard. I'll bank on this talk board over tech support anyday. That don't mean PTC sux tho. Bank on a collective.
 
Having used Unigraphics for 18 years and Pro/E for 5, PTC support is way behind what is offerred by UGS. UGS actually answers the calls when you call. If you use the web interface to request a call, you get a call back usually within 1 hour and they have the answer. There have been times when they have had to research a problem, but it never fell through the cracks and got lost. They have even written patches just for my company to fix a problem on an olderbuild of the version of software that wasn't due for a new build for few months.
 
I have not used the call center for 10 years. Does PTC know there is a problem with their help line?



I wonder what it costs to keep a staff (even in INDIA) on staff for answering calls?
 
Phoxeoy,

I understand your position, but from my point of view, all of the complaining on this forum is just that. I can see you being more frustrated than the average user because of what you do. I can't remember a time in the 5 years that I have been stopped in my tracks and had to call PTC support for an issue. This forum and others make it somewhat easy to get resolution to many issues and I am glad for that.

Years ago I had a great relationship with a very high ranking member of management at PTC and never had to go far to get something resolved. I moved on and so did he, so that is now gone. I still very fortunate to have a pretty good job making the money I am, and using a very good piece of software.

Imagine using 2D Autocad to develop some of the complex designs that we all do today!?
 
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