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Yes, finally a more lively topic than the Wildfire rants!
boydt, don't send your product drawings to Asia, friend. If you do, you'll probalby see it on the shelves before you get your tooling completed. You need to go to an U.S. design house and a U.S. manufacturing company that has trustworthy working relationships in what is a least a free country (Taiwan) to have your tooling built, and that can still build your product reasonably in the States. There around, just dig.
This brings up the answer to an important question raised here: why should I give my knowledge that I have sacrificed to obtain to any stranger in the world that asks for it? I shouldn't. It is careless. Who do I want to share information with? People who embrace at least some of my basic beliefs about what is right:
1) Free enterprise
2) Private property and ownership
3) Worship according to dictates of conscience
4) Man is sinful and you must have checks and balances to hold him accountable
Now, I share these beliefs with fellow Americans (well maybe not the Democrats), Canadians, British, Australians, and many others (maybe Iraq in the future). But not with China, Iran, Pakistan and others.
The question I ask myself is: must I also be willing to pay a price at some point, and decide that the best way to help my neighbor is to do business with him. Quit living by the ultimatum Cheapest bidder gets my money?
What the web has shown us (this site included) is that you can give away a certain limited amount of imformation, but if you want to continue to be able to use your knowledge, at some point you have to get paid for it. I have a website I am building, I spend my time making a way to disseminate knowledge, but I have religious and monetary motives (they don't conflict). I intend to make a useful free tool, and hopefully lead people to truth with it. But I have to make some aspect of it profitable to continue to just cover my expenses, and convince my wife I'm not wasting my time.
The question I ask myself is: must I also be willing to pay a price at some point, and decide that the best way to help my neighbor is to do business with him. Quit living by the ultimatum Cheapest bidder gets my money?
I don't think it's the cheapest bidder gets my money, but who does my country wish to keep as its friend?
By keeping countries as friends, we must give them money in the form of work off our shoulders.....
- Speling, have you received any work that was related to the U.S.????
Of course - in the long run, it hurts the wannabee workers in our country.
When all is said an done, in business there is only one phrase, 'Money talks'. A business will look chose the cheapest price for the best quality whether it is in the US, UK, Taiwan or China. If they don't, then the company fails and jobs are lost. Our company manufactures all our product in China. Anyone else cannot compete with the cheaper costs for the same quality. I would love to manyfacture product here in the UK but the cost is considerably higher. We as consumers want better products but we omly want to pay as little as possible. You could say WE are the cause!
I thought this is a forum for ProE users help and education in the use of ProE, not a political forum!
JONGPC, Our Government IS to blame. Why do people go offshore? Because it's cheaper. If you want companies to stay here, as I and others do, then we need to convince enough people that tax breaks to companies is a good thing. AND, while we're on the tax subject, we need to make it easier for entrepreneurs (whew, I had to look that one up) to create their products.
And, like Roger said earlier, we are closer to a One Wold Govenrment than most might agree we are. We don't need any World' government telling us what we should make and how much we should be making. We have the Democrates for that.
luckily, we have the Directors and management teams in place to do this. We DO do it better: quality, development and customer service - the whole package.
Presumably a few proprietary processes and some patents contributed to this success too.
Your company sure wouldn't be as successful if it gave it's industrial secrets out in a forum such as this - QED
I live in California and the restrictions placed on businesses are incredible - in terms of taxes, regulations and environmental restrictions. Arnold has just come to office promising to make California more business friendly - hopefully a sign of things to come for all of us.
One thing to realize about business trends is that they tend to be cyclic - I've already read articles about businesses pulling out of India in favor of Russian countries for reasons of geography and Indian/Pakistan situation - especially with nukes involved.
My boss went over to china a couple of months ago, and said that he could have bought Wildfire, AutoCad 2004, and any other design software he wanted for $10.00 a copy (with crack codes).
It is also hard to compete when you have to pay full price for your software.
Doug, I really am getting fed up with your attitude. I am not giving any company 'secrets' out on this site, nor would I advise anyone else to do so.
I am, however, disgusted by the fact that you seem to think that if a user in Asia has a problem with proe that all American users should not offer help or support because he/she may have won a contract from an American firm.
If you can offer nothing other than rude, snide comments to this site then I for one will not bother coming here again. And don't bother with a sarcastic remark to that - I'm way ahead of you.
My boss went over to china a couple of months ago, and said that he could have bought Wildfire, AutoCad 2004, and any other design software he wanted for $10.00 a copy (with crack codes).
It is also hard to compete when you have to pay full price for your software.
I think PTC would stop these companies becoming too sucessful?
Doug, what a hornet's nest you've stirred up.... :-D
I must admit that this is the longest and most entertaining thread I've read in a long time. I mean entertaining in the people bitching at each other sense.
fair play to anyone who can innovate/add value to design wherever you come from
working as a consultant i have worked with designers from companies all around the world, in particlar those in the freetrade zone
imho designers their are more diligent, harder working and more enthusiatic than many of my european contempories
its easy for people to become complacent in the western world - we have everything (well ok maybe thats a bit too much, but you know what i mean)
they may be backwards in many ways but working with them its is good to see that they have ideas
their english may not be so good for me to understand but a CAD model can show a thousand words in terms of design intent and the way a designers mind has solved a problem
i may be out of a job because of cost of manufacture/design in the next few years, but i know as a designer i must strive to add something extra that establishes my work from the crowd if i am to carry on with my clients
its a competitive world out there - and its getting bigger al the time!!
surely this is down to the companies that market the product?
ok PTC do charge a significant amount to 'train' people
for a long time now people have earnt a lot of money by being good at proe because its hard to pick it up easily (me included)
there will always be people that do not want to share their knowledge - ive even seen it in departments with people making sure that no-one learns surfacing just so they dont have to do drawings
proe is becoming easier to pick up with each release
surely this is better for all - as a designer it should be your creativity thats the limiting factor not the tool you are using
as far as economics go, like has been said before westerners want the latest and greatest but are not prepared to pay
im no fan of seeing my countries manufacturing go east - i see a lot of friends out of work, the smarter ones dont get bitter about it, just try and progress on to stuff where they can make a difference and stay competitive or change careers completely
you can get home built product - europe produces some of the finest audio equipment/automobiles in the world - at a price
As to out sourcing to India, I remember a s spot on TV I saw of an Indian government figure stating that if a government wished to educate its citizens to a earn a better life stlye it was more effective to make an design or software engineer than a doctor because of the lower capital cost for the training, MEs need PCs and good math not surgical suites and residencies.
Its worth a step back to consider that the Indian equivalant of Joe Average also wants good things for his family also.
There are a number of issues here. Not the least of which is this. Is the United States a sovereign nation or not? I realize, as a Christian, that we are on the threshold of the one world government, but I would like to see it held off for a few more decades.
so, the Apocalypse can come, but prefereably at your convenience?
( for you non-Christians, please refer to the last book in the Bible)
please. (rolls over, wipes mouth and goes back to sleep).
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