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Outsourcing overseas III

>I believe the US Government is indeed the answer. Taxes & >tariffs could straighten this out.



You mean like the Bush admin. steel tariffs.? The ones that raised the cost of raw steel to industries in America. The loses in domestic automobile production alone amounted to five times the short term windfall that went to the steel industry.



It's a nice sentiment but it only buys votes, not jobs.



-Bernie-
 
I agree Protectionism is ultimately self-defeating so what is the answer - tax subsidies and incentives for companies that maintain their own in-house capabilities maybe ??
 
Sure, right, whatever.... I don't know what the answer is. Maybe taxes & tariffs are not the way to go. I don't know.



I do know the state of affairs for the manufacturing sector in this country is going down hill, and something must be done.



Maybe we should take all the presidents of the companies that send products over seas, and make them live with a family who's lost their income do to his job being eliminated and given to some Asshole in China. Then the president of said company can see what his business decision does to real people. (just like Cousin Eddy did in National Lampoons Christmas Vacation)



Is this an unreasonable solution? Yes. Is it unreasonable to put millions of Americans out of jobs and give these jobs to some piece of shit who is too stupid to realize what is going on? Yes.
 
10g, I don't kow if PTC has for a fact sent their support over to India, it just seems to me that all of my calls here lately have been to Indian speaking persons.



On the govenrment solving our problems, I agree that something should be done, I just don't think the government is the answer. I do agree 100% that taxes are the answer, but I think that lowering taxes on businesses is the answer NOT raising them. Give them the incentive to stay here.



Now onto another part of the puzzle. I know that in our company (we make gasoline dispensing equipment) we have had to do more with less. This means cost cutting and lean manufacturing. So what I'm saying is, we don't need as many people doing the same jobs anymore. We've gotten better at Engineering and producing our products so we don't have as many jobs anymore. I'm pretty sure that other companies have had to do the same just to survive. Bottom line, IMHO, just because a job was lost a couple of years ago doesn't mean it's needed now.



Steve C
 
Steve C,



Your last statement is correct, and painful to really think about. Many of the jobs being sent overseas to be done by lesser paid, lesser educated, and lesser skilled people, are on the verge of being obsolete here.



We have so many automated processes now, and many more coming. The jobs that are going overseas have a short shelf life anyway. If they stayed here, in most cases, they would be eliminated by a lack of need in a few years anyway.



When a company sends a job overseas, a US worker has someone to blame. When the job becomes obsolete, the worker now starts to look for someone/something to blame. The damn robots, or stupid computers, etc.



But none of this is new. People in this country have been adapting to change for a very long time. Someone asked adapt to what? Well if we knew, we would be there already! It's a process, with an unknown route and an unknown destination.



125 years ago, agriculture was entirely manual labor. Now, one person with a tractor can plant in a day can plant more corn than entire communities could in a season. And it takes only one person to drive that tractor. What did all those other farmers do? They learned new skills, adapted, built the tractors, painted the tractors... and all the things that go with it.



Our history shows that trend happening over and over again. The United States is blessed with a wealth of natural resources, freedom, and diversity. All these things work together to shape how we survive. The companies that send their work outside our borders are free to do so. They will be free to bring them back as well. We have the tools here to always be on the forefront of development. And with people ranging from the cultures of the SouthEast to Northwest, there is always someone that has an idea and someone that has the knowledge.



Now all we have to do is stop thinking we are the victim, excersize some personal initiative, and kick some ass.
 
(see my new post, entitled PTC has office in India, BOOOO for a comentary about the tech support issue)



Sidemout, you have redeemed yourself in my eyes. You just brought forth a bunch of good points. Although I don't like what you have said, it certainly is true.



I personally think some kind of government interaction will need to take place, because the manufacturing industry will not survive if it needs to adapt in such a way as the farming example you gave.



The fact is, there are millions of Americans that directly compare to the Chinese & Indians who are stealing our jobs. Lesser educated, lesser skilled Americans are lossing their jobs to lesser educated, lesser skilled foreigners. These Americans are going to have a big problem adapting, as you keep mentioning. These people work in factories for a reason. What are they going to do if there is no unskilled labor type positions for them to go to?



You & I are obviously skilled & educated because we are, after all, using a Pro/E forum. It will be easier for us to adapt. But, what about other people? That is what pisses me off.
 
There will always be a need for truck drivers, machinery operators... etc.



The guy that used a broom to sweeo the streets in the 30's... what is he doing now? has to be something.
 
-There will always be a need for truck drivers, machinery operators... etc.-



How? All the products are now made overseas. No need for machinery operators... I guess the products still need shipped around, so truck drivers are a good idea, but millions of them?
 
Sidemout,



You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The only thing to add is that the jobs that replace the ones that disappear because of improved productivity are BETTER paying jobs. In fact, the only way to increase per capita GDP is through this (sometimes painful) increased productivity.



If you think government regulation is the answer perhaps someone on the list from Germany might give us their perspective on the pros and cons of the East German system vs the DDR.



To those that think the jobs moving overseas are going to stupid workers; well you're just plain wrong. IT jobs are moving to India for example because they have a young well educated workforce. So to with China. Education has a direct correlation with economic success and this IS one area that our government should be doing more.



One big advantage we have in the US and Western Europe is the freedom of information and a relatively free market system. No chance the centers of world finance are going to be leaving New York or London any time soon.



-Bernie-
 
Speling, there's a reason that American defense contractors do not allow hiring of most foreign nationals, or require a clearance. It's called security. Confidential weapons and design information has been stolen numerous times in the past. America is only smart by limiting who has access to that data.



Frankly, I find the idea absurd that wars will result because American companies refuse to hire foreign nationals without clearance. If anything, it prevents future conflict by slowing weapons design by countries that the United States is not friendly with.



Who someone chooses to work for is a personal choice. (I have worked for defense contractors, and I serve in the US Army.) I believe in capitalism, but I also believe corporations have a moral responsibility to their communities and their customers. The problem that many people on this board have with outsourcing is that (1) companies are sacrificing quality for profits, and (2) they are betraying their communities.



I'm not saying outsourcing to other countries necessarily lowers quality, but in many cases it does (e.g., PTC outsourcing customer support for American clients to India).



David Martin
 
first up yeah Britain is treading water from an engineering pov. not a cash cow more tha family kittie. thats why I am here in the states looking for work although the insane cost of health care more than balances up the pay difference. The states has every biggie F500 england has like motorolas call center the US you can go and work as M'rola Industrial designer. Plus england costs an absolute 'kin bomb to live in but at least we are a little more diverse and don't point these childish pointed white hat sentiment at a race you little of. Why do you think chinese food is available everywhere in the world. Cos they ain't stupid or cheap, just mostly exploited. They until last year had to ask their boss permission to marry. Unless you have met and spent an intimate amount of time with every Asian national, shut up. This is all an issue of money not race. Money really is the root of all evil it is just disguised as communism, racism, facism etc. If chinese people make any one sick they must be sick themselves.
 
We have had some of our product sent over seas for manufacture much to my dislike. First of all their quality was crap! I had to check some of their work, and I rejected most of them They asked us to revise our prints because they could not conform. We flexed a little and after the third time they did ok. That's when they told us that they would only do the work if the quantitiy was large enough. So we flexed on that as well and they started shipping. Well the shit has hit the fan. They shipped late, the ship got delayed in a storm and our parts a stuck in customs for over two weeks now, We now we are having to delay orders to our customers and production control is hunting every where for any parts laying around. So much for saving money.
 
Speling;

Please take this as constructive but I find it very hard, if not impossible to understand much of what you are trying so hard to say in your posts. The severely broken english (in this type format) and incomplete sentences that stop, start, jump and then start again are impossible to decipher. I do understand that you are from another country but if you want people to hear what you are saying then it would probably be a good idea to take a deep breath and type slowly. I am sure that many others would appreciate your responses more, if they were understandable.

Regards,

Bruce
 
C2r



Why you are so proud abbout your english?

maybe you don`t know but most of americans learn english

nous pouvons parle en francais si tu veux



Cristel
 
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