CREO - First Impression?

[zpaolo]

Did you mean 16:9 and 4:3? My wife's laptop is 16:9, I think, maybe not quite but it is wide screen. Vertical resolution is ~800px.

With 800 vertical it's probably a 1280x800 16:10 monitor, that's still acceptable (I have a 15" laptop like that and it's still good), most 15" 16:9 laptops have a resolution of 1366x768, THAT is unusable!

On my new Windows7 machine, I've docked the taskbar on the right and it's great. The Windows 7 taskbar icons are more like square-ish tiles than the XP or Vista tabs,

Ah, I understand your point, but I don't like 7 taskbar with large icons, I always switch it to look and feel like the old taskbar

Paolo

 

[michaelpaul]

I find it mildly entertaining that people are so ready to ridicule CREO when nobody has even really seen it or what it can do yet for the most part, the same people b!tch and moan about how PRO-E works and how PTC hasn't added functionality or changed things in the current product.

the reality is, PTC is no longer going to support WildFire. they're going to support the CREO suite. we're either going to use it and love it and find that it's the greatest thing ever, we're going to switch to another CAD package, or we're going to find work in another field.

Personally, I look forward with great earnest to see what CREO can do for me. I'm a PRO-E hater in that I think it works but most of figuring out how it works is to figure out how and when it will explode so you can model around it's deficiencies. I can do my job with Pro-E. I can do my Job with SW. they're both capable tools. But WF is not the holy grail of CAD and IMO it really has been playing catch up to other packages for quite some time. maybe CREO is the way PTC is making it's statement.

The fact that they had to have been working on CREO for a number of years would also indicate that while they were still supporting WF with upgrades, they may not have necessarily been giving upgrades past WF4 much attention knowing full well that after WF 5 the product would be going away. perhaps they focused energies not on fixing all that was wrong with WF but in developing CREO correctly.

 

[moriarty]

CREO has a chance with the USER so long as its not a mashup
of Menu Mngr, Wildfire and Unix - just one clean interface.

An interview with Buchowski suggested its 2years old
already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9ysTmKZ1M

 

[SW]

How do you get two years out of date from that interview? He said "been ongoing for the better part of a few years at this point".

Sam

 

[moriarty]

who said "out of date" ?

Actually looking forward to its release - if PTC get this
right they have the potential to dominate - get it wrong
and USERS will walk - both from ProE and CoCreate.

I wonder what CoCreate users think of it all?

Wildfire promised a full Windows experience and it was
never delivered. PTC should meet NOT manage customer
expectations.

 

[dr_gallup]

What the heck is a "full Windows experience"? Blue screens of death?

Why do people hold a POS kludge like MS Windoze up as the end all user experience?

 

[Mindripper]

While a small number of computer users in this world may still be using Unix-based operating systems or applications, the vast majority of us are using MS Windows, and a lesser number are using Apple products. Although Windows has it's weaknesses, it's thesystem of choice. For those of us who have never used an integrated set of Windows-based software tools, some of the concepts and techniques may be unfamiliar: copy stuff to the clipboard and paste it in a different application, the ability to simply click and drag stuff from one window to another, the ability to tile windows within an application, and much more. Unix-based applications such as Pro/E struggle to achieve any of this functionality that is prevalent with the leaders in the MCAD marketplace, and it reflects PTC's failure to evolve their product in the New Millenium. PTC has long since lost 'the potential to dominate' the MCAD marketplace because of this and other factors: we can only hope that this 'new initiative' will get them pointed in the right direction. But I fear that PTC is still resisting the simple fact that John Hirshtick was right over fifteen years ago, when he left PTC to start SolidWorks (and took the best talent with him). Yeah, we will just have to wait and see. I also believe that this may be PTC's last chance to get on track in the MCAD market place.

 

[michaelpaul]

Why do people hold a POS kludge like MS Windoze up as the end all user experience?

Because that's what we use and by and large, it works?

the days of needing dedicated and expensive workstations for CAD are over and unnecessary. overall, Windows works. my PRO-E crashes at least once a week. I really can't recall the last time my Windows actually crashed.

 

[jerrymort]

Monitors - we use 24 inch HP at 1920 x 1200. Really good

 

[dr_gallup]

Why do people hold a POS kludge like MS Windoze up as the end all user experience?

Because that's what we use and by and large, it works?

the days of needing dedicated and expensive workstations for CAD are over and unnecessary. overall, Windows works. my PRO-E crashes at least once a week. I really can't recall the last time my Windows actually crashed.

I use MS windoze & Orifice too, but I don't consider them a shining example of user interface design. Talk about not fixing problems going back multiple releases: Try printing to a file from Excel - you have to type in the complete directory path, no ability to browse like in Word. Try printing from project, no page setup like in other Office programs. Then try printing from Access, another completely different interface. Unified suite of programs my ass.

 

[zpaolo]

Monitors - we use 24 inch HP at 1920 x 1200. Really good

 

[gristle]

My laptop has that res in a 15 inch. 1920 by 1200... quite good because my desktop 24 inch monitor has the same pixel count, so when I run the laptop through the monitor, no resizing needed. I guess the widescreen push also comes down to ergonomics; looking left to right all day is easier on the eye than looking up and down.

 

[dgs]

I guess the widescreen push also comes down to ergonomics; looking left to right all day is easier on the eye than looking up and down.

Except that web pages and documents all scroll up and down. As I look at this page, 50% of the screen width is the gray border outside the forum itself.

 

[mgnt8]

FWIW I docked the taskbar on the right per Doug's suggestion and moved all my icons over next to it. Seems to work well.


And so far Creo seems like a great way to sell Co-Create.

 

[gristle]

I was thinking more about apps than web browsers. With web pages, the width is set by whoever is publishing the page and they need to consider viewing on a wide range of monitors. Even the BBC use to limit to 800 wide back in the mid 2000s, might have increased that though.

 

[gelanz]

I was really disappointed in the Creo Presentation. I
thought PTC was going to turn a new leaf and actually fix
their code. I have a running list of about 100 things
that need to be fixed or is just plain sloppy programing.
This presentation was basically a CoCreate roll out.
Just about everything they presented was standard
CoCreate capabilities thats been around for years. It is
a rare day that someone sends me a IGES file I need to
modify in the 25 years I have been using CAD. This is
Deja vu for me. Intergraph was a major CAD player in the
80's and mid 90's with their EMS modeler($1.5B company).
Their CAD engine had core problems with congruent
surfaces and lack of feature based modeling as that trend
was growing. They could not fix it so they replaced its
kernel with ACIS kernel and renamed it to Solid Edge then
later sold it to EDS Unigraphics and were out of the CAD
business. Look at the presentation again and replace the
word "simple" with "stable" when describing CoCreate. I
have used CoCreate, it is not any more simple the Proe,
more stable yes! Goodbye to regen failures and lost
references! All CAD has a learning curve that takes years
to really master.
PTC has quit writing code. They just buy anything they
need, CoCreate, Computervision, Windchill, MathCAD,
Arbortext, Product View, Mechanica, Pro NC, and list goes
on. The last time I can remember they wrote code was
Intralink and it is now dead. We bought a seat of Solid
Works and it is full of impressive CAD automation
features. Ask yourself what real slick feature has PTC
added since their auto constraint sketcher in V20? Watch
a Solid Works demo and the wow factor is definitely
there. It makes you wonder when is PTC going to catch up.
So they go buy CoCreate....Kind reminds me of adding a
quart of clean oil to a motor with three quarts of old
oil and skipping the oil change.

 

[design-engine]

post your list of 100!

 

[Freecat]

Great post gelanz. Like you, I too am one of the lucky ones who has not only used Pro/E for a long time(several releases going back pre-Wildfire), but have also have learned to(hate lol) er I meanuse theCoCreatefamily ofproducts. My CoCreate use goes clear back to a timewhen HP owned them (it was then called SolidDesigner).Having used both products on a regular basis I feel I too am wellpositioned to read between the lines, and through the smokeof the PTCCreo speil.


Iagree withyour post. CoCreate has done all of that stuff for a very long time. Their flagship product (Pro) needs fixing in the worst way. PTC has indeed lost their way, and I feel it is due to stiff competition from Solidworks, and others that has pushed them into making some rather rash decisions.


I have a list too, and it is becoming to be a long one. Some complaints get you nowhere with PtCbecause that blasted code hasthem shackledinto a corner. Windows that don't remember their setttigns. They can't fix that. Chasing windows around, dissappearing windows during maximize/minimize. Can't fix thateither. I do complain, and I haveactuallysubmitted suggestions to themthat have made their way into their products.


Here's one example. In the early releases of Wildfire 3, when using the "distance" functionallity to interogate a model, the distancevaluedisplayed on the screen with the modelneverfully corresponded tothe measurement valueshown in the distancewindow;the distance value displayed with the modelwastruncated /rounded. That just wasn't right, and now it's fixed.


But there are more problems....even little things that are just irritating.


"Option Pro/ASSEMBLY not ordered, please contact your sales representative."


and... how I love the verbage in some of the message prompts! Not ordered. Hmmmm. yea.


Inconsistencies in the interface...things that tick you off on a daily basis using the product. The list goes on and on I'm afraid.

 

[gristle]

[No message]

 

[Freecat]

Here is #101. The Menu Manager. Everybody hates it, right? We'll for those of us that remember the way back when, whenit was all that you had for everthing you did, may I point out how and why I stillfeel thatMMisn't that bad of an interface after all. In practice, I stillbelieveit has elements of usethatare stillaheadof the newdashboard interfaces. Here is where I'm going with this.


With the "old"Menu Manager interface,the workflow is such that thesoftware interfaceisalways trying topresent thetask at handto you in a logical progression; ie there is alwaysa "start", and then there isultimately a"finish." The dashboard really doesn't give you any sort of guidance orprogression in this respect, and can be difficult to understand what's going on at times.The interfaceis just not very intuitive.


The dashboardfor me isa cutsy little graphicalinterface that isused to replace what the Menu Manager used to do, and that's great,except there is no order.Especially thelittle dashboard "tabs" that hide options or fundamental pieces of information that you need to fill into complete the task. More often than not, those little tabs completely kill theorder andsmooth progressionof the workflow.


The improvement: Keep the dashboard concept, however let'sget rid of allof the little tabs that hide fields of information or option specific to the task, etc.,and let's try touse some of that huge real estate we have up for grabs nowon these huge computer monitors! There's no reason to hidethe fields of datathat I routinely access to do my job. Let's get it all up frontand visiblewhere I can seeand access it. And...put it in a logical order so that there is a more streamlined work flow. Start on the left side of the screen... finish on the right... hit accept and your done.


If you've ever studied lean manufacturing techniques they teach you to never use drawers to place your commonly accesseditems in due to the inherent inefficienciesdrawers create. I think the same concept applies here too.


No junk drawers please