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ptc marketing has failed!

jbuckl

New member
Sucessive reworks of the user interface has lowered the value of proengineer.

The menu manager has served the pro-e community well and should be retained.

Intent Manager is another marketing exercise that doesn't help unless the product is being demoed.

Please stop following the crowd or the software will become like all low end stuff.....cheap.

Citroens used to be unique, now they are cheap Peugeots!
 

swcalvert

New member
I think PTC Marketing is doing just what it's suppose to do. Go with the market. I, for one, am glad to see the menu manage go away, maybe now I can use the entire size of my monitor for my model. I'm new to Pro/E and have been using UG for 7 years and prior to that I was using Cadkey. Each time something changed, it took a little while to get used to it, but in the long run all the 'Sucessive reworks' has made the software easier to use and made me a better designer. We are in a 'point and click' world now, PTC has to keep up or it will loose even more market share.



steve c
 

skuld

New member
I have to agree with jbuck on one point. The Intent manager on the skether sucks...



I have a problem with the computer telling me what dimensions it thinks I need. I know you can redimention the sketch after but I get sick of having the sketch snapping to points I don't want, making asumtions I dont want made and automaticaly selecting references I want it to ignore. I have been using proe since Ver11. and learn't how to use the skether the correct way, building in the design intent of the part/feature. I generaly try to put as much detail into the sketch as possible (ie rounds, fillets chamfer etc) as this keeps the feature count down. Keeping the feature count low is important for quick regeneration times and overall model stability. There is nothing worse than redifing feature number 8 and then to see the next 50 features regen fail because a sketcher entitiy was referenced to an edge rather than the face.



OK I'll admit that for first time low experience users the Intenet manager makes the skether a painless experience. But you can get so much more cotrol over a sketch if you turn the intent manager off.



In the end I'll be happy just so long as we have the ability to turn off the intent manager and use the traditional sketcher environment.



Having said all that about the sketcher I must disagree with the other comments of jbuck. At about ver 20 of Pro/E you can see that PTC did a serious benchmarking against the opposition and it has now developed into a much better product. You try using the failed feature resolve mode in ver 11 of Pro/E and see how frustrating it was to redifine a lost reference.



All in all Pro/E has come along way (It still has a long way to go before being perfect). As a UG, Pro/E and casual Catia (Ver 4) user. There are still features I miss in Pro/E (there are also features in UG and Catia that I long for), but I look forward to having a good play with the new Wild fire release.



Skuld.
 

gregl

New member
We have a couple older guys at my work that don't like the intent manager and keep it turned off also. I have to disagree with that. If you learn how to completely use the intent manager you can sketch faster then without it.



Obviously, Pro can't auto-dimension exactly how you want, but some of the time it guesses correctly helping you finish your sketch faster.



If you started your pro experience with intent manager and learned how to use it, then had to switch to no intent mgr, I think you would see how much slower the sketching process takes.

Try to get your hands on some tutorials that go over all the clicks and picks in intent manager and you should see your sketching go faster and easier.



As for the removal of the menu manager, I can't believe it took them 20-some odd releases to get rid of it. There's a reason that the other CAD systems don't have one. When 1 click of a small icon can replace 4 clicks through the menu manager that takes up 1/5 of the screen, I can't believe anyone can argue a case to keep it.



but thats just my opinion......
 

Jonathani

New member
The intent manager is WAY better than the old way. What are you talking about. Pro/E had to change the sketcher to compete with other modelers (like SolidWorks) where you don't have to constrain anything. It's too bad PTC has done such a bad job coding it. The menu manager only harks back to the late 80's when programs didn't need to be optimal, it was just amazing if you got them to work. Poor code is not high end CAD.
 

botrando

New member
In one sense I'll agree with Jonathani, and that is about intent manager being the way to go. Once you understand it, that is. However, pointing out the ability to have a sketch that is not fully constrained (aka Solidworks) as a positive attribute I just don't understand. Why in the hell would you want a sketch that looks good but isn't tied to a damn thing and has no particular dimensions....it's just there and worked good at one particular point in time. As far as coding it I' d say Solidworks has a ways to go to reach the level of ...well you know. Poor code is not high end cad.... keep at it Solidworks.



I've personally found that intent manager gives much more control over your sketch; and yes it doesn't always dimension how you want; but hell that's easy to remedy. Try using Unigraphics or Solidworks when your trying to fully define a complex sketch , the code isn't going to suggest diddly squat.
 

dougr

New member
PTC Marketing is doing just what it's suppose to do. Go with the market.



What do you think they did 17 years ago when they first started - there wasn't a market to follow dopey - they created it !!!



I personally don't like intent manager, what most people I think fail to realize is that ease-of-use requires the software to make assumptions about constraints that are best left to the user to make to maintain design intent.



I don't use intent manager in Pro/E but I do use SW too. In SW I waste way too much time figuring out what assumptions the damn thing made and figuring out how to circumvent them to get what I want - I don't consider this easy to use.



Intent manager should be relegated to the role of a training tool only. Users should be prepared to think about and plan their design intent and not have a piece of software decide it for them.



Time for PTC to start leading again and not knee-jerking to upstarts like SW.
 

biff

New member
Lets face facts, P.T.C are going tov take the skill factor out of modelling so that any idiot can use it!



This is why they have introduced the intent manager.



There was nothing wrong with the old constraint methods where you had to dimensionally constrain your sketch before you could regenerate.
 

swcalvert

New member
So dougr, given any tool, can you produce a good solid model. I say you can. I sure could. It's not the tool you use that makes a good design. It's the person designing it.



steve c
 

ProFishent

New member
Intent Manager was created to simplify the use of Pro/E for new users. While a good marketing scheme, in my opinion is kind of like handing a 12 year old a loaded revolver, and removing the safety mechanism. Most long term users will agree that since the inception of IM there are more incompetant users out there. And the problem is they don't even know it. They get in over their head and need to be bailed out. Often times the work has to be redone by a more experienced user once revisions come around.
 

avongil

New member
The intent manager is the best thing PTC has ever made. I started using Pro at version 19. When the intenet manager came out I could scetch a drawing in less than 1/2 time with the same exact constraints as before.



If one produces unstable sketches, its not because of the intent manager, its because the user does not understand the logic of parametric solid modeling.



Once an older user of ProE starts using the intent manager he will never go back. I have seen vereran users resist the intent manager, but when they do learn it they always sketch faster and better.
 

dabele

New member
Every one is complaining about Intent Manager placing dimensions on the sketch. I think that you miss the point of intent manager; its biggest advantage is being able to constrain the sketch on the fly.



Instead of having to move the end point of a line close to being tangent to an arc, regenerating the sketch, and hoping that pro/e picks up the ASSUMPTION that you wanted the line tangent, you simply tell sketcher that the line is tangent to the arc and you get immediate confirmation that it is what you want. This example does not even mention what happens when the sketcher assumptions assume what you do not want. Yes Intent manager applies dimensions and constraints, but it allows you to easily change them. As a rule I do not leave any weak dimensions in my sketches and therefore my design intent is kept intact.



I have been using pro since release 11. I too pissed and moaned about intent manager in the beginning. After giving it a chance, I will never go back to the old sketcher. That is not to say that I still do not use the old sketcher, it still is invaluable when fixing failed features and there are times that Intent manager just doesn’t get it. I do think that it is good practice for all new users to learn the old sketcher. The more you know about pro/e the better user you will be. This goes both ways, even if you do not want to use intent manager, give it a chance. You might learn something in spite of yourself.
 

gggggggggg

New member
You old school guys are plum crazy! The Sketcher Intent Manager is the best thing to EVER happen in Pro/E. You complain about losing design intent when the system makes assumptions? CRAZY! My favorite thing that Pro did before Intent Manager was telling me the sketch was too small to regenerate. What? Are you kidding?



Try changing your ways and stop being so stuborn. Welcome to the 1980's... Oh wait, it's 2003???????
 

mgnt8

New member
How about going into sketcher to redefine a feature and having the first item you click on deleted because that was the old default.

Ha, Ha fighting over which is better V. 18 or 2001 - now I've heard everything.
 

adicar01

New member
:)))

time is mean progress, everithing is based on marketing.

if you like some retro ... no coment! but not in buisness world.
 

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