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Proe Vs. Mastercam

cristelino

New member
what you think guys?

is allways monney problem i know........

but i think i if you use Proe for design is an mistake to make manufacturing in Mastercam



Is someone using Mastercam before?



Cristel





Edited by: cristelino
 

whit2498

New member
for me there is an engineer in the shop that only uses master cam.Sometimes he needs the iges file fromproe if he is doing any kind of tricky surfacing. proe is the best way for us to design and construct drawings. Its comes down to manufacturingusing whattheyknow how to use. There is a split of design and manufacture that needs to be put together.
 

cristelino

New member
myself i used EUCLID for machininng and i have very good impresion abbout

That was seven years ago

Now others not me buy Mastercam but i bilieve if is PTC solution is better



my question is if deserve make traininng for Mastercam

Is ussefull?
 

ctarmijo

New member
Good Morning cristelino,


It has always been my experience that even though Mastercam is cheaper than the manufacturing module of ProE, you still lose more money in the long run because if you have many design iterations, ProE's associativity simplifies the manufacturing process. Now, in order for this to happen there needs to be a couple of items that fall into this category. The first is that you are controlling the design model in house or have ProE native files to manufacture from. The other is that the design iterations are simply dimensional changes. If there are new features added to the part it does not matter what system you are using to manufacture, they all need to add the new manufacturing information to create this newly added feature.


I was a manufacturing implementation consultant with PTC for two years. In those two years I learned that if you use a thrid party software to manufacture, youwill lose money in the long run due to the fact that you have no associativity with the model. Also, manufacturing with ProE gives you more than just the associativity feature, you can also create automated setup sheets, solid tooling libraries used for collision detection, use Vericut to simulate the toolpath, and the list goes on and on.


I hope this was helpful. If you have any other questions please e-mail me. Thanks and good luck.


Christopher
 

tinag

New member
Hi


We use proe to create the manufacturing files, but then post process them using a third party software. We find it the most cost effective way and we do not need to pay any extra for new postprocessors, or for modification of exsisting ones.





Tinag
 

Chris Bennett

New member
Mastercam is what we use here with one seat of pro/e WF2.0. I would not recomend using mastercam for anything but machine code generation. It is not a good design tool for multipiece assemblies or complex geometry/solids. As far as we are concerned MASTERCAM STINKS. Our programmer has completely lost 2 fixtures (solids and geometry) this week. BTW we use mastercam 9.1 and it is extremely buggy. Many crashes and failures. Files that worked yesterday don't work today for some unknown reason. Tech support says it is the operating system (Win XP) or "we have never seen that error before"


Your company will spend more money in failures and redrawings and repostings than it will save by buying it.


Also, the way mastercam is programmed it will Zap all system resources when it is open. Even when the session has no parts open!!!!
 

cristelino

New member
i have some more to explain

1 Our client use for design PROE

2 We suplly machinning parts for them

3 we design our pieces in Proe too

4 Cam solution is already choose Mastercam



But.............................

I want to use like CAM solution Proe modules

I have experience in Cam with Euclid................ a lot

I try to understand proe machinning module parts
myself but is so big difference if i take all responsability to
make all machinning in Proe because i never do that before in
practice (GENERATE PROGRAMS FROM PROE)

Like mechanical parts are not so complicate and i have a
lot of expirience in directly work with CNC because i do
machinning myself like simply workers



I m scared because i don t know the problems what wiil appears after in proe

But i m counting in you guys



A lot of thanks



Cristel
 

ctarmijo

New member
Cristel,


I will be the first to tell you that to learn ProManufacturing will take time. You will not be able to just jump right in there and create programs. You need to be proficent with ProE first. If you have that confidence then learning Pro/Man will be like learning ProE for the first time. HOWEVER, the long tem benefits are going to be much greater down the line. It also sounds like you are the CNC programmer. Is this true?


If you have ProE experience and have machining experience that will make the learning curve much, much easier. If not, you are going to be in a very tough situation. Good luck!


Christopher
 

bedek

New member
Hello


Nothing against Pro-E, its a good and expansive program. A couple of downsides also mentioned in this post are long learning curve and expensive ownership.


SolidWorks as you may be aware was started by a break away group from PTC that wanted to produce a less expensive software not limited in its capability and very easy to use with a modern interface. They have clearly managed to do this when you considertheir installed base and exponential sales to the mechanical design community.


The only piece missing was the manufacturing component.SolidCAM www.solidcam.com has filled thatgap with a tool that handles 2 through 5-axis simultaneous maching with complete associativity (like Pro-E, Pro Man). Post are free and there is a free development toolkit if mods are required.The price compared to features is astonishing and the learning curve is in terms of hours and not weeks.


Bede
 

cncwhiz

New member
bede,


I have been a programmer for 25 years and we use proe/ proman for all of our product. The price argument is not a valid issue in terms of what you get whan all is up and running. I use solid works and proe on a daily bases and when everything is tied together you can'tcompare proeit to solid works. Anytime you have to use two programs to get what pro does with one you "WILL" have problems. As far as learning curve I am self taught and did not have that much trouble.Just for the record Iprogram four axis code for machining centers. Between proe/ proman and vericut, that would then take three programs which is more problems using solid works. So go out and price a seat ofsolid works " about the same as proe, a seat of any "GOOD" cam package that can import proe files, then verict. Then tell me that solid works and all the axtrasoftware are cheeper. As far as posts you will"NEVER" get anything other than generic posts from any cam supplier. I have an outside guy for posts that writes them for all the other cam packages you guys talked about and the price is the same for one as the other.
 

pronc

New member
Well, the last time i checked Pro/Man was cheaper than Mastercam. That was about 2 weeks ago. i don't think Pro/man is more expensive than Master cam any more.
 

bedek

New member
cncwhiz


I thought that real numbers would be better than hypothisis. A seat of SolidWorks with integrated 3D SolidCAM is around $12000. This price includes MachineWorks the most widely used toolpath verification software in the world.


Your statement "As far as posts you will"NEVER" get anything other than generic posts from any cam supplier." was in the past my experience as well. CAM companies expect the enduser to modify their own posts or charge exorbitant fees to do the work. The SolidCAM philosophy is that their product is not complete unless they supply a working post that suits the customers needs.The way they described it was, it would be like sellinga customera printer and then expecting the customer to build their own cable.To them that is not satisfactory, they will build or modify posts free.Perhaps other CAM companies will follow suit, somehow I doubt it.
 

rcamp

New member
Our Mastercam rep provides us with a functional postprocessor specifically for our machine at no charge. In the beginning we specified how we wanted our code, and they modified it. Any other mod's afterwords are extra.


ProE is the only one I've dealt with that made you pay (someone else) to get one that is actually functional to your shop's standards.
 

cristelino

New member
THANKS FOR ALL REPLYS

iI think i m verry experinced in Pro design

I work in robotics ;plastic;sheet metal with big company in Europe but that company don t use proe for machinning

I m proe user from 7 years and i think is the best software for engineering

from that consideration i bielieve is better to start machinning in Proe

I made everithing in theory;verry complex pieces .but that only to see type working with proE in manufacturing



So can you recommend me some tutorials for Proe machinning?



once again thanks



Cristel
 

richbvap

New member
tinag said:
Hi


We use proe to create the manufacturing files, but then post process them using a third party software. We find it the most cost effective way and we do not need to pay any extra for new postprocessors, or for modification of exsisting ones.





Tinag
 

tinag

New member
We use TesoPost. When we ordered the trial version they first craete posts unique to your CAM software and machines used. This is done at no extra charge to the price of the software.


So far we have had very few problems.. any problems where fixed almost emidietly.


Tinag
 

cncwhiz

New member
I could probably use Bobcad to post out code but third party software still has no link to proe and as long as you only have to program the part one time all is good. But as far as I know if you do a revision on a part you can't replace a part model in a third party software a post out and be up and running? As far as ptc and posts go they will make you a post customized for you machine or if you use "gpost" you can go online and download a post that will work. What I was talking about with what I call a working post is a post that when all is said and done will produce 100% non-edited code to the machine. This from all of the cad software I have run takes a while and may for time to time still need some work. Does your third party software do this for you or do you have to pay a yearly fee to be able to do this? My point in this being that this is a proe forum is that you can make programs from proe models but there is no tie between softwareand this is a "MAJOR" differance between third party software and pro manufacturing.


 

tinag

New member
Hi cncwhiz,


You do not need to import the 3d model into TesoPost, only pro/NC's Tool path file (.NCL). It is this file which is then processed. If you update the part, the toolpaths will still update as they are created in Pro/NC. All you do is then re-save the .NCL file and re-porcess thru TesoPost.
 

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