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If you run pro engineer and use pro nc, when the model is "revised" and I stress on the modify, it will update in pro man. This will allow you to "regenerate" and post out the updated program. When you use "any" other software you can only use an iges type of model. The model can't be updated and you have to change the model in proe and re-import themodel as an iges type file. Depending on how you built you sequences you may have to rebuild the whole program?
@mediumsliced
thanks for ur help...i'm mould maker..and now i'm using autocad, and we want to use cad/cam integrated software..what do u think about that?
@cncwhizi
i heard a rumour, wether mastercam, dellcam, and symatron
have a good associativity between their cad-cam...is it true?? if its true...than thats software is enough..am i right??
Most CAD/CAM packages will have good associativity between them, i.e. CAD <-> CAM. Pro will have the added benefit of not having the model go through a translator, i.e. the design model will be used as the CAM reference model, without being exported to say, Step or IGES to be read in by the CAM module.
mmm..thats right...but how if i build 3d model via cad system symatron (for example)..then i make nc program directly...its mean i dont need any translator..is it right??
Well, you are right, if you build your model in Cimatron, you don't have to translate the model if you are going to do CAM on Cimatron too.
I'm not too sure about Cimatron, but with Pro, you full associativity between CAD and CAM models, like what cncwhiz described. Changes in the upstream design model will drive downstream changes.
I use Pro-e on a daily basis. I also use Mastercam daily. Pro-Nc has it's pro's and con's as does Mastercam. Imho, I prefer to export to Mastercam and program from it. It's alot easier and quicker to get the simple things done. Where I work, we do alot of prototyping and I prefer not to have to deal with keeping the associativity between our designers and the upstream cad model. It does sound nice, in theory, that " yeah we changed the model....go ahead and update your nc file" but sometimes it's not as easy as it sounds depending on the changes made i.e. if they made serious changes to feature you used for references you be spending a whole lot of time re-routing things anyway. If your a very well versed Pro-E user this might not be to bad but can still get sticky at times. The whole learning curve of Pro and Pro-NC is a little steeper too, but on the design side it is well worth it and depending on your application, could be worth it onm the cam side. For what I do, I stick with Mastercam. It imports step, igs, dwg-dfx just fine. You can set up templates and libraries (as you can in Pro-nc too) and the latest version of Mastercam has "Change Recognition" that monitors your database (igs,step) for changes, shows you whats been changed and helps you update changes. I haven't used it much but it works. Like I said, just my opinion from my application view point and experiences.
What is the price of the new version of mastercam? If I recall from the past, mastercam is over 15,000? Your point is well taken in that if you allready know mastercam it is better for you then proman? If the people doing the modeling have a clue that you are running proman than they will build their model and do any changes so it won't be a problem for the programmer? For any type of machining if the people doing the work play as a "team" than you can't beat pro engineer?
"If the people doing the modeling have a clue that you are running proman than they will build their model and do any changes so it won't be a problem for the programmer? For any type of machining if the people doing the work play as a "team" than you can't beat pro engineer?"
There in would lie my problem. Especially the "have a clue" part, lol
I'm not sure on the price of MC, you'd have to contact a reseller for that info. I'm not here to sell anyone on MC and I'm not knocking Pro-Man, just stating my opinions and experiences. They way things are for me, I do what works for me to get the job done asap.
I've used Pro-Nc and beleive it is a very capable program and hear it does well at multi axis (I've never used more than 3 with it). I'm not sure how it lines up cost effectively either as we already had seats of both when I came aboard.
Yes I have used mastercam in the last shop that I ran. That was back in 94. It is the number one cam software on the market. I did a side program for a guy a few yaers ago and used it there too? I know that mastercam is more costly than proman but ther are a lot of posts to be had? Don't get me wrong I think that the software is good but if you are going to do manufacturing why not have it all in one package? I have run into issues with inports where the model has problems. That does not happen with proman. I have heard people complain about the people who build the models making a revision and instead of "modifing" a model they will delete and create a new feature, bad for proman. I have been a machinist for almost 30 years and I would have told you before that I could build a program better than any software? I still think that I can make a cleaner program by hand but there can be problems doing that " typo's" that make cam the better way to go. What I have found with programs like proman and some of the other ones are that the people that built them must have never machined a part? Hell, bobcad works for alot of people but I like the total link between the model and manufacturing?
Whiz, Glad to see you've used MC and yes it is great software as is Pro. I've found that the way things work here for me, I can get things done quicker with MC. Sure I can't "update" the code if a minor change is made (and most aren't minor) but I really don't lose much time at all. My environment isn't a production manufacturing environment, we do alot of different things and we don't always get pro databases, heck sometimes we don't even get databases, just a napkin with a sketch,lol. I'm also lucky that my management allows me the flexibility to use witch ever I prefer. I my case, it's MC. Keeping that "total link" has never really been a big issue, if it were, I'd go that route. I'm not trying to argue that Pro is great or MC is better, just saying what works for me and how I use it, and passing that on to the person who asked the question. I from the school of "whatever works for ya to get the job done, then git'r done" If it's Bobcad, it's Bobcad. If it's Pro, it's Pro. Give me a great tool, I'll use it as best I can.
I use Pro/man, Mastercam and Esprit here at work. If I have to choose one I'll pick Pro/man. Yes, for some people the learning curve for Pro/man is longer. But the benefit of using Pro/man in a pro/e environment is huge. I am a Mastercam user since the late 80's. Things started to change when i came to work for a company using pro/e for design. We had to prototype a lot of casting and plastic injection mold part. Revision changes many times a day. It was a nightmare. Pro/man came along and made my life a lot easier. Now even in a job shop environment I am using pro/man. Yes, some changes in model will take longer to update. If you know how to set up your references while working in pro/nc everything won't be so hard. In another word build some "intent" while you are creating sequences.
No I didn't say Mastercam doesn't have associativity. What I am trying to say is in a pro-e environment pro/nc will outperform Mastercam in many ways. I am not familiar with Dellcam or Cimatron so i can not give any opinion on it. Mastercam X2 has new "file tracking" option. That doesn't work very well. Esprit 2007 has new feature to give you some kind of link to Solidworks and Solidedge file. That too doesn't work up to expectation. Every Cam software company tries to give you the ability to associate with the design model. They still have a long way to go.
You must not only look at associativity only.
There are several things where Pro/E does (in my opinion) a rather good job (it is still not THE perfect job, but we are getting to it).
First thing is like already mentioned in previous posts namely associativity. I.e. you change the original model and if you have created the manufacturing model correctly the manufacturing model (e.g. workpiece, toolpaths, ...) will be modified also.
The second thing is the use of templates and I don't just mean manufacturing UDF's but also manufacturing templates. With templates I don't mean just start models, but also strategies. If you follow the rule book you can create toolpaths for a certain piece and save the followed strategy within an XML file. You can then apply this XML file on a completely different model where Pro/E tries to recreate the original concept as far as possible. Contrary to UDF's this won't crash if certain things fail (e.g. drilling of holes that are now not present in this model).
A third thing is that Pro/E is capable of using applied tolerances (hole tables, shaft tables, ...) within the manufacturing model. You can e.g. have a diameter of 30H5 and change the dimension bound so that Pro/E will mill it to the middle of the tolerance area.
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