2001 to Wildfire Migration

[ttx]

Hi,

Are there any 2001 users who are in the process of switching to Wildfire?

I am very interested in all of the things that the PTC sales people are not saying. What I mean is; they talk about all of the part modeling and interface improvements yet they don't talk much about the less flashy things - like getting the part done, the drawings done, the assembly drawings done and getting the parts or products out the door.

We have spent a lot of time optimizing 2001 for maximum effeciency.

Can anyone tell me what it is like to move from 2001 to Wildfire in a situation where the transition has to happen quickly? How friendly is Wildfire to regular 2001 users?



Any comments would e greatly appreciated.

 

[dougr]

I can tell you they don't have make-datums any more...

 

[bhayden]

Are you using Intralink? If so you can't switch to WallFlower until the next release of Intralink is out. And I'd wait a while after it's release for the bugs to get worked out.



I'd be hesitant to make the switch until you have a compelling reason to do so. You can always migrate parts from 2001 forward but there's no going back. That means if you have a large standard parts library you're going to be faced with maintaining seperate versions of the same part to maintain legacy data.



Bernie Hayden

XKL LLC

 

[jperkins]

I am going to the PTC training next week. Anyone have any questions you want answers to about Wildfire upgrade?



The class is May 1-2. I am willing to ask the questions.



jperkins

 

[dougr]

Find out why the hell they got rid of make datum in Bile Matter...

 

[proed]

dougr

Why are you so angry about the loss of make-datum?



The new method still allows you to create datums in the middle of creating features - they just show up in a group in the model tree.



Making datums on the fly is one of the things that new users often struggle with, and I reckon this change should make things a bit easier...

 

[dougr]

Proed:



Have you ever seen a model with so many datum-planes you can't see any actual geometry ???



With this new approach, I feel users are being coerced by PTC and I don't want to have the hassle of dealing with groups to create patterns - who does ??



How many users know how to use groups now - you think new users won't struggle with groups ??



As a new user I never ever struggled with this.



PS I'm not angry, just extremely annoyed - why shouldn't I be - this was a Pro/E function I counted on to get my job done. Now they've pulled the rug from under me and made my life more complicated..



Guess you haven't used make datum much..

 

[lcoates68]

Just because new users might struggle with a particular function because they are new, doesn't mean they can't learn it. And it doesn't mean PTC should remove it. I'm sure dealing with groups to pattern and having way too many datum planes in the model is more of a struggle.

 

[dougr]

Here, here !!!

 

[ProFishent]

What I don't like about Datums OTF, is that they hide your design intent from anyone else looking at the model. If you create a cut with 2 daums OTF, and I want to change the sketch plane I have to start the datums all over. When I do create new datums OTF my sketch will 3 out of 4 times end up upside down, which means I have to start over again until I get it right. With grouped datums I can always see where my refrences are, and pinpoint my problems.

 

[patent_pen]

The biggest benefit of DOTF is when creating a rotational pattern of a single feature. Other that this point, I believe having the datums grouped is not a huge issue. . . . BUT



It would be nice to have multiple group levels (groups with in groups) for use in complex patterns of multiple features.

 

[dougr]

Actually you don't have to start the datums all over again.



You just have to make sure your datum-planes are on in your environment and any appropriate layer is displayed.



This was the case up to R18.



If datums OTF can save me 100 datum-planes ( http://www.pro-classifieds.com/portal/forum/msgDetail.asp?msg_id=2077&for_id=21 ) more power to it..

 

[ProFishent]

Yes you can see the datums in the redefine menu. But you cannot see them in the model. What I meant was that if you want to change the refrences of your OTF datum you either have to start the datum over or reroute the whole feature. If you start the datum over there is a good chance you will lose sketch orientation. If you reroute the whole feature you have to be able to discern which refrences are for the datum and which are for the sketch(which is not always easy). While I and most others can work through this it is not ideal(to me).

I agree that we should be able to make groups within groups. And also pattern patterns. This would in my opinion better solve the problem. I also don't really care how many features I have as long as I have a robust understandable model, and good regeneration. But this is all my personal opinion, and I am not trying to force it on anyone. I am happy to swap Ideas and Methods with other Pro/Guru's. That is why I post on this site.

 

[dougr]

My objection is I'm being unjustly denied my preferred way of modeling.



ProFish,



I have always taught that good modeling practice is not to use them (make datums) anyway



If your not forcing your opinion on people, it sounds like your imposing it...

 

[ProFishent]

It's my job to teach Pro/E. One of the first thing I was taught on Pro was how to use Datums OTF. I was immediatly taught not to use them if I could avoid it. I do agree they are useful, and have their place(when the model will not change hands, or at all and time is of the essence). But losing this function will not affect my daily routine. I cannot remember a single case where I used them.

This does not mean that you, and others do not need them. To me the most useful part of this function is that the datums don't clutter the screen. I do agree that this function should be preserved or PTC should allow us to group to new groups that they are thrown in, and automaticly layer them so that they are not seen. If they did this you could do things the same way, and just ignore the OTF groups.

As it stands though you will have to alter your modeling technique, and I feel for you. We have had to do this to many times with PTC. I like innovation in my software, but I don't like blatant change for no good reason(marketing), and this seems to be what they are all about.

 

[dougr]

I always used make datum as a measure of a modeler's skill.



What does this say about PTC ??

 

[lcoates68]

I can remember in the training classes that I had the PTC instructors really encouraged and pushed the make datum functionality. Their reasons were valid then and I think they still are today. I use them all the time because they allow for all controling dims to be accessed by simply selecting the feature.

 

[jperkins]

I found out the class was moved out 2 weeks to May 15.



The offer still holds, I will ask questions for anyone but I think I will post it under Rant n Rave with the title Upgrade to Wildfire.



This way I get an email whenever someone posts under it.



My apologies ttx for listing it here, I didn't think. You are getting dinged with the email.



jperkins

 

[ttx]

OK,

Maybe I should post my question in the rant and rave forum as well.....?

A lot of interesting comments on the use of DOTF

Perhaps a good question to bring up at the next Wildfire Web-Cast - why no more DOTF in Wildfire?





JW