shift-pick, control-pick, shift-pick-pick

[dougr]

Have recently just been exposed to Wildfire and it is so much more difficult than 2001, for the life of me I can't see any value added reason why they went to Object-Action other than to appease a hand full of rookie modelers.


Why call a "flat" surface a "fill" surface ??? Why's it under Edit feature and not insert ??


Call that dashboard user-fu'ng-friendly ????


Selecting surfaces for surface merging is a pain. When selecting you have to choose a base feature like a blended surface, take the pointer off and put back on to get the full quilt. By default the first features Pro/E lets you select are surface merges which don't count so these have to be scrolled thru each time.


When trimming using surfaces the trimming surface used to be "consumed" now default is to retain it and no config option to change this - why ??


With UDFs it is necessary to manually select each reference - before in 2001 you selected a feaure reference (vertex, point, edge etc) and Pro/E then moved you to the next one - lots and lots more mouse clicks now - is this progress ???.


Why is a "sketched" datum curve just a sketch now ???


Don't get me started on compound curves - shift-pick, control-pick, shift-pick-pick, control-pick-control-pick.


Why put the layer visibilty command under the view pick, why not leave with the layer dialogue as before - my right hand sure gets a lot more exercise (not that it needs it) because of this.


Layers are defaulted to layer items. So when I load a model that includes an import feature with 1,000 entities I have to sit and twiddle thumbs while the layer in question is populated with these 1,000 entities. And no config option to turn this off so it's now had to become part of my start up routine.


Also, all the same old problems are still there - eg Features that generate internal axes still get put onto the datum axes layer. I have a lot of surfaces blank out on me because of this - wtf is this not fixed by now is beyond me, I've known aboutthis for at least 10 years..


Seems to me that in terms of actual modeling the PTC guys are at best 3rd rate and are responding to other 3rd rate modellers.


Still DOTF is back but why do I have to keep unchecking the "retain embedded datum feature" box when deleting features ????
Edited by: dougr

 

[dgs]

The transition from 2001 to WF is a challenge. Give it some time and it'll grow on you. If you ever have to go back to 2001, you'll find that you miss WF. Hard to imagine now, but that's what I found.


Here are a couple of tips related to what you mentioned:
<UL>
<LI>I like the addition of object action functionality, I just wish that all features could be done either way. Many can, but some require O-A, others still require A-O. Silly.</LI>
<LI>I've grown to love the dashboard concept. A little raw around the edges still, but it's nice to have the entire feature's options available instead of the one-at-a-time style of the other interface.</LI>
<LI>Merges - Note that Pro|E pre-selects the feature you just completed. So, if you create an extruded or 'fill' (I agree, silly name and location) surface, it's already selected for merging. Hold control and pick the other one, click merge and go.</LI>
<LI>The compound curve thing is nuts, I agree. It helps (a little) if you understand the method behind the control/shift madness. Shift selects a chain of entities, control is for selecting multiple, non-adjacent entities. In composite curve creation, a chain is required so control-pick isn't available, only shift click to select a chain. They used selecting cells in MS Excel as an example. It works better in Excel.</LI>
<LI>Don't know what you mean by the layers add items. Are you using def_layers? If so, go read the Mastering Layers Q & A in the model forum. Def_layer has been depreciated in favor of layer rules, which are much more powerful.</LI>[/list]


One thing I found that helps the dragging the mouse from one corner of the screen to the other is moving the dashboard/message lines to the top of the screen. This puts it closer to pop up dialogs and drop down menus. Bu, this generates a problem in that the dashboard menus now drop down instead of popping up and cover the model/layer tree. To solve that, move the model tree to the RH side of the screen.Those changeshelp a lot.

 

[magneplanar]

dougr,

just so you know...wildfire 4 will be out soon...you might want to get with the program hehe

try using your right mouse button, you may find shortcuts to some of the details you are talking about...click it, you will like it

cheers,

M

 

[dgs]

From his last item (referencing "retain embedded datum feature"),I think he's not actually on WF, but WF3.

 

[dougr]

dougr,

just so you know...wildfire 4 will be out soon...you might want to get with the program hehe

try using your right mouse button, you may find shortcuts to some of the details you are talking about...click it, you will like it

cheers,

M

What details in particular ???

 

[dgs]

Lots of functionality in WF is hidden in the right click menu. During draft creation, for example, you can toggle between surface collection, to draft hinge to draft direction selection without going to the dashboard.

 

[james.lynch]

hmmmm ... Ialways find these debates interesting..


I actually learned on WF1 and when I started my current job a few years back one of our clients were still on 2001 so I had to learn that (as I said having learned on WF) now this was a challenge!!


having said that, there was much finctionality in 2001 that I really miss - transforming a surface actuallyu transformed the surface - not a copy of it for example!! there were many pther things tooo.. but they've alll been aired at this point. I will say tho'.. that there were many thing that I hated about 2001!! but I think it was the most stable version I've used so far!


James

 

[dougr]

I just got thru modeling a tubular frame and the "model datum" feature was magnificent !!!


The diagonal cross-pieces used everything - axes, points and planes.


This feature puts Pro/E so much further ahead of everyone else - too bad they don't understand it enough to fully exploit the marketability of it...


Anyone else know how to use "model datums" ???

 

[mjcole_ptc]

When will PTC add a right click to turn new selection on when useful and off when aggravating, or config like the one listed below for Windoze Key operations?
ctrl_shift_bullsh*t on/off

My gripes listed in bold with question mark cause of PTC's inconsistency
My answer, sarcastic U.O.S. unless otherwise specified.

Is object action available on this command?
Flip a coin, you'll have better odds.

Selection toolbar commands based on row number in list?(check your last trailfile
Nice job on that one PTC. My selection mapkeys start with s for modeling and x for drafting. UG kills Pro/E in regard to selection UI.

~ Select `main_dlg_cur` `Sst_bar.filter_list` \<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"> 1 `3`
Isn't it perfectly obvious that the preceeding command must be for Select Datum

Will I ever be able to have more than Toolbar 1, 2 and 3?
How about giving us a few more icons so i no longer have to make them for myself.

Are 3 year olds making PTC's icons cause icons don't?
Other programs give me a case of Icon Envy. Someone should tell PTC that icons don't create themselves.

That's all for now.<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">No, wait one more question.
<br style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">What useful functionality will be removed or lost in WF4?
Useful Functionality & Wildfire. hmm

Michael



Edited by: mjcole_ptc

 

[csusie]

dougr


"Features that generate internal axes still get put onto the datum axes layer"


I believe in WF 3.0 you can create a layer that only gets axes. The old way layer rules was to find features that has axes. But you can in WF3.0 search for just axes.

 

[mjcole_ptc]

Thanks for reminding me csusie I'll add that to my list of what to check out in my WF3 trial edition to see if what PTC says is actually true.

Up till now I've just been looking at the WF3 Wildfire 3.0 demo site.
http://download.ptc.com/tour3/index.html

<<UPDATE>>
I checked out the Layer functionality on WF3 and was able to create a Layer for
FEAT_HOLES used to suppress and resume by layer. If Edit Suppress wasn't gray in Standard Mode
HOLE_AXES
HOLE_THREADS

both of the HOLE_* layers can be shown or hidden separately, Yeah, it's about time!

Michael

Edited by: mjcole_ptc

 

[dougr]

This bloody shift key doesn't work too blinking well.


Put cursor over curve it changes to cyan, hit shiftit changes back. Get white screen flashed up, get several curves selected all at once.


Anyone anyinsights as to how to use this properly ???


Control key's not too bloody hot either....
Edited by: dougr

 

[magneplanar]

dougr,

as annoying as it may sound, did you look thru the quick reference card?

[url]http://www.ptc.com/community/proewf2/newtools/quick_referenc e.pdf[/url]

you can also change some of the behavior by choosing a filter from the filter box(typically in the lower right corner). When you get used to using the interface you can leave it as smart. For now it might help you to select a filter for items you want to choose.

ctrl to add items individually
shift to add items in a chain or boundary set

by the way, I set the preselect highlight to be black color so the flashing is minimized. you can also turn it off if that suits you...

cheers,

M

 

[dougr]

Tried all that , it's seriously crapping out...


ctrl seems more reliable than shift.

 

[mjcole_ptc]

Shift+Pick doesn't really work to well unless you use Right Click to cycle through options before picking. If you hate the selection functionality select a portion of what you want then go into the dashboard menu for refs and use the details dialog shown below on the right.

View attachment 4144



Edited by: mjcole_ptc

 

[dougr]

Thanks for the clue.


Had success selecting single entity of eachchain/string then went to the details menu to complete each chain.


Only thing is had use ctrl to add to each chain (shouldn't this be shift ???) - go figure, someone at PTC didn't get the memo about shift keys.....


Where is this described in the help ???
Edited by: dougr

 

[dougr]

After working on Misfire 3.0 for several months now have got to say "Object-Action" sucks.


Admirable that PTC wants to reduce the number of mouse-clicks but what about the length between mouse-clicks. Hint to PTC the overall objective is to reduce overall time and be more efficient:


overall time =number of mouse-clicks * time between mouse-clicks (simple math)


It takes an eternity for objects to highlight and cycle thru until you get what you need.


Creating boundary surfaces is a nightmare and take forever.


This is not progress, give me "Action-Object" any day..


Is Misfire 4.0 any better ???

 

[gkbeer]

One thing to know about WF is...

If you are doing something frequently, and have to dig deep into a menu or a control panel every time a feature is created, Try hitting the RMB instead.

Many many things that are hidden 2 or 3 levels deep in the new UI are available in the RMB menu at the moment they are most needed, making it unnecessary to dig down into the UI.

 

[dougr]

Try doing RMB on boundary blends...