Living without a PDM/PLM...

[zpaolo]

My company is cutting costs and the machine running Intralink is going to be phased out soon. I'm facing the possibility that we will not have a PLM system anymore, so I have some questions in order to understand how can I "survive" this change

The first issue regards descriptions: all my parts have a name that is just a progressive part number, and I used to rely on the Intralink description field to understand what a part was... If I go completely pdm-less, how can I access that info from, say, the load part or load assembly dialog box? Is it possible? I'm on Wildfire 2.0, soon migrating to 3.0 (I hope)

 

[pschroer]

Have you considered an Open Source PLM system? Much less expensive then using Intralink or Windchill. www.aras.com Aras is open source PLM and has a very good Pro/E integration.

 

[zpaolo]

Have you considered an Open Source PLM system? Much less expensive then using Intralink or Windchill. www.aras.com Aras is open source PLM and has a very good Pro/E integration.

I'm installing Aras right now on my virtual server, but as far as I remember the integration with Pro/E is not open source and is provided by third party, is it correct? Anyway I'm going to give it a try...





I also tested the demo of DDM, really good product, too bad they are not going to sell it to us as we are pro/E based

 

[jnoval]

Intralink 3.4is working great on a virtual server using vmware. This way you can save the hardware if you have virtual server.

 

[zpaolo]

Intralink 3.4is working great on a virtual server using vmware. This way you can save the hardware if you have virtual server.

Hmm, but how long will support for I3.4 last? Anyway, I'm not the IT manager here, I only have a Virtualbox installation that I use to test software.

The situation of the company is quite complex, we were part of the larger Pirelli group in the past, so we have a huge IT infrastructure serving us and buying licenses on volumes. The people managing IT and contacts with PTC are saying that Intralink 3.4 no longer exist, that it is not compatible with WF 3.0 and we need to shift to Windchill, and that Product Point and DDM are too expensive (but, in fact, they never asked or got a quotation for both, otherwise they should know that DDM simply can not be bought!).

On the other hand, if you ask one of my managers how much we can spend on a new PLM they ask you "isn't there anything free?"...

That's why I'm asking here for the best practices to work without a PLM system. For example, is there a way with a toolkit or a library or something like that to access part files relationships with Access? :O

 

[r.decker]

On the other hand, if you ask one of my managers how much we can spend on a new PLM they ask you "isn't there anything free?"...

I feel your pain, that's the same problem I'm having in getting any kind of PDM/PLM system.


We're running WF3, and have been using ProE for several years with only a file folder structure, and I can tell you it is a recurring headache for me. It can be done, but thought needs to be put into the file folder structure and all your search paths set up. The biggest hurdle we've run into is personal discipline. Any time a part needs to be revised, or when anything new is created, certain procedures must be followed. I'm still in the process of cleaning up redundant parts. By redundant I mean identical parts with different names (sometimes as many as 5+), and parts that are functionally different but have the same name.


One solution we're using is the use of a naming matrix a draftsman here developed. Basically it's a kind of CSV description we use to search for parts in our ERP system. 3 characters, comma, 3 characters, comma, etc. Do a search by that and you can find all models that are close. Again, this comes down to personal discipline of actually entering the matrix and doing so correctly. If the product is still in the development stage and it is not entered into the ERP system this method has its own obvious problem of searching for something that doesn't exist.


Without a PLM/PDM system we also have no way of knowing a part's status (work, released, reserved for changes, etc.). Our ECR/ECN/ECO process is tracked manually. The following example has happened to us on more than one occasion. Our purchaser finds a similar product from a different vendor at a lower cost and (again, his discipline to submit it to engineering) wants to know if it works. Initial specs meet all the requirements, but mounting provisions have changed slightly. The model can be updated, but now we must find every model that uses the new part. Perhaps while the discussion between the purchaser and one engineer is going on another engineer is completing a new product using the part in question not knowing of the new change (as there is no check-in/check-out ability) and submits it for manufacture. Next thing we know is the guys on the shop floor are calling engineering all kinds of names because a purchased part we've used before suddenly no longer fits.


For finding parts without a PLM solution there was another post about findmymother, although I have not tried it yet myself it could help.


[url]http://www.mcadcentral.com/proe/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33 605&KW=findmymother&PN=0&TPN=1 [/url]

 

[zpaolo]

Thank you Decker, I'll check "findmymother" ASAP. I checked out GoPDM and it works well with single files (even with the revision naming convention of Pro/E) and has a decent checkin checkout procedure. What I really miss is the ability to se the "where used" and assembly tree, and also the descriptions of the parts that is a parameter and is not accessible to GoPDM

Anyway thank you all for your comments!

Paolo

 

[tgill]

At my last company I implemented Aras Innovator. We actually paid for it. It has been in full production for over 5 years supporting project management and some document management. Over 1000 parts/projects have been launched into production using Aras. At that time there were no CAD integrations so we ported a homegrown system to manage UG NX data.

There are several providers of CAD integrations and most are covered. I saw a demo of the XPLM solution managing PRO/E and it looked very clean and functional.

I'd also like to clarify free. Aras Innovator is free to download and run in full production. There are customers doing this that have had no contact with Aras. Aras gets their revenue from optional annual support contracts.

You will be investing your time, and possibly some money for training and consulting. It is a simple system to get started with, but is very flexible and has deep capabilities.

I am working as an independent consultant, and would be happy to help you evaluate if Open Source PLM software makes sense for you

.

Tom Gill
[email protected]

 

[tracehae]

There is another product available for a fraction of the cost of other PDM solutions. It is called CheckOut 5.1 and can be downloaded and used free for 60 days so you can see if it meets your needs. The product is very stable and there is no annual maintenance fee. The web site is www.hcs-checkout.com
Edited by: tracehae

 

[JamesM]

I'm installing Aras right now on my virtual server, but as far as I remember the integration with Pro/E is not open source and is provided by third party, is it correct? Anyway I'm going to give it a try...

I would be interested in any opinions you have of Aras. It's impossible to get anyone there to return a phone call and their forum isn't very active so I'm looking for people who have experience using it with Pro/E.

 

[ikimbrell]

Here are some other ideas you may have already considered, but if not they might help.


1.) If you need to get to Wildfire 4.0, upgrade to the latest build of Intralink 3.4. This will allow you to keep going in a controlled environment at least until you want to go to Wildfire 5.0 or you need to upgrade your operating system. Intralink 3.4 is a VERY stable system, so just because it is a dead product does not mean you can not still use it.


2.) Assuming that your IT resources are trying to avoid a.) the cost of migrating to Intralink 9.1 and/or b.) the maintenance for keeping Intralink maintained...


a.) Look at downgrading to Single Site Licenses.


b.) Go get the quotes for the upgrade to Intralink 9.1or a move to ProductPoint yourself. You guys are going to end up paying for all this in engineering hours one way or another. Your IT folks are really putting you in a jam.


c.) See if your reseller will offer you a contract for tech support only on Intralink 3.4 even though it is now an officially unsupported product.


3.) Have your PTC/reseller sales rep do a case study for you on the increased cost of not having a PDM system. PTC has some standard spreadsheets for calculating this. I can guarentee you it will scare the heck out of your IT people.


You need to fight this for the good of your company. Even if you go to a free PDM system, you are going to end up abandoning all the history you have built up in Intralink because a migration to a 3rd party system is going to swamp the cost of any other route you may consider.


My stomach hurts just considering your situation. Good luck!

 

[tontonsam]

I think you should support the idea of upgrading to Productpoint, this is an easy, fairly cheap and Pro/E native environment. The hardware-card the IT is playing is not really an issue... as Ikimbrell mentiones, the engineering department is going to get more expensive than the savings you (the IT dept.) make on saving on hardware...


You should really ask the IT people if they actually know what this Intralink or any PDM means to an Engineering department? we have an IT department, very good people, skilled and all you want bu they don't get the benefit of putting data in a database ... but they have no wlue of why we do this, because they are never confronted with this kind of problems.


hope you can convince them!